"Put a coil round it."PB

THE MAGNETIC FIELDS ARE CONTAINED WITHIN THE FERROMAGNETIC MATERIAL (UNLIKE COPPER CURRENT BEARING WIRE) SO WHAT WILL THE COIL READ OTHER THAN STRAY FIELDS?

Thane

Quote from: OilBarren on March 23, 2008, 11:18:58 AM
THE MAGNETIC FIELDS ARE CONTAINED WITHIN THE FERROMAGNETIC MATERIAL (UNLIKE COPPER CURRENT BEARING WIRE) SO WHAT WILL THE COIL READ OTHER THAN STRAY FIELDS?

By Faraday's law, the voltage on the coil is the rate of change of flux through the coil.  It doesn't matter one bit that the flux is confined to the shaft.

That's why transformers work, eh?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

WHAT HAPPENED TO ITS EASTER KEEP IT LIGHT

Quote from: aether22 on March 23, 2008, 12:38:29 AM

Quote from: Mr.Entropy on March 23, 2008, 12:36:10 AM
Has anyone put a coil around the shaft to measure exactly how much magnetic flux is getting into the motor? 

25 gauss I believe Thane mentioned at one time.

I have also posted more than once on just how implausible any notible level of flux getting to the motor is.

I think you might be surprised.

If there's a low reluctance loop back to the coil or rotor through, say, a steel-topped table, then there could be signficant flux -- remember that a whole metre of permeability 1000 material has the same reluctance as only 1 mm of air.

If there's no such path, then... I think you might be surprised anyway.  Think of a thin toroidal core, 1 metre around, permeability 1000, with a small coil at some point.  The coil displays a certain inductance.  If you cut a 1mm gap in the core opposite the coil, the inductance in the coil goes down by half...  So... how does the coil see this new gap that is a whole 1/2 metre away through the iron?  The magnetization caused by the coil must travel around the whole core before coming back to the coil and reinforcing itself to boost inductance.  How does that work?  Is it like a wave?  If it's like a wave, how fast does it go?  Can it be reflected?  Could you make standing waves without a loop?

The standard equations don't model the dynamics of magnetic propagation through ferromagnetic materials, and I don't know a thing about it.

Quote from: OilBarren on March 23, 2008, 09:14:50 AM

Quote from: polarbreeze on March 23, 2008, 08:13:15 AM
Aether, I'm sorry to say that you seem to be very quick to dismiss theories that are proposed by others but you don't seem to be so forthcoming with theories of your own, nor to be supportive of objective measurements that would help to flush out the truth. It's hard to make any progress that way.
PB

WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF WE JUST PRESENTED IDEAS AND THEORIES TODAY WITHOUT TAKING PERSONAL POT SHOTS AT EACH OTHER?

THEN WE CAN GO BACK TO VERBALLY ATTACKING AND TRYING TO "KILL" EACH OTHER ON TUESDAY.

OK LET'S HEAR IT?

WHO HAS A BETTER THEORY THAN MINE I.E.
GENERATOR BACK EMF INDUCED FLUX GOING INTO THE DRIVE SHAFT AND AFFECTING THE MOTOR.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND YOUR PROPOSITION SHOULD RELATE TO PART 1 AND 2 ON THE YOUTUBE VIDEOS.

1) IF NOT MAGNETIC FLUX WHAT ELSE COULD IT POSSIBLY BE?

2) OH AND ALSO HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO ACCELERATE A 1/4 HP MOTOR WITH A 10 LB ROTOR FROM 300 RPM UP TO OVER 1100 RPM - WITHOUT ADDING ADDITIONAL ELECTRIC POWER -BUT JUST A 3" STEEL BAR? REMEMBER ALL OTHER PARAMETERS ARE EQUAL.

SO LET'S BE GENUINE HERE...
I WOULD LOVE FOR SOMEONE TO PROPOSE SOMETHING OTHER THAN MY THEORY.

MAYBE IT IS AFFECTING THE ROTOR FREQUENCY?
HYSTERISIS CURVE?
ROTOR CORE RELATIVE PERMEABILITY?

AND FINALLY
3) WHY DOES A PLEXIGLASS ROTOR PRODUCE THE SAME RESULT (ACCELERATION) WITH 8 COILS BUT NOT WITH ONLY 1 (DECELERATION)?

ANY TAKERS?
Let's also remember to have a little fun - this is just entertaining debate after all.
Thane

Well my theory is that magnetic flux is not effectively delivered to the motor, that the flux path is far too poor and any flux that gets through is massively overpowered by the fields in the motor.
I also believe that it has been shown mat magnetic fields simply can not have such a sizable effect.

I believe based on much research that the medium of space (the Aether) is it's self changed and conducted through the shaft.
And that once there it has the ability to change the operation of the motor in various ways.

I am more than aware that without context that sounds unlikely and baseless.

Ways to possibly verify the aether (orgone) theory:

Amplification of the effect when various shorted coil forms are wound over the shaft. (possibly in series with the gen coils)
Amplification of the effect by use of radioactive materials, very high voltage electric fields and UV or Xrays. (all of these energize the aether)
Study of the effects the aether/back-emf pouring out of the generator shaft has on various systems designed to isolate a single effect. (hysteresis, eddy currents/induction, transmission or reception of distant fields)
An air-core coil placed over the shaft of a mechanically loaded motor powered by Thanes generator (preferably full-wave rectified and smoothed if it does not kill the effect) to see if it improves motor power, if it does try it again but powered by a conventional source. (ensure the current is the same in each instance.

got to go, more later.


Addition:

First, now I have a bit more time, thanks for getting this back on course, this is where we need to be.
We need to be proposing ways to find out just what is going on, what makes your discovery anything over and above any other generator that speeds up on shorting is the clarity provided by the 3 inch steel rod.

The reason plexiglass would work (pretty much regardless of what theory anyone might have) is that while it reduces the conduction of 'whatever' into the motor, if you create lots of 'whatever' then some of it will push it's way to the shaft.

I would think that it would also make it's way through the 3 inch gap also if you added enough coils and possibly shortened the shaft length.

So let's have a #4, have everyone suggest experiments and make a list of the top 10. (and debate them)
Then as those of us with generators find it expedient to do so we will complete and report the results.

So here are my submissions:

The first 3 are a progression, if one fails go no further
A: Feed flux from generator into a motor which is not mechanically coupled. (have the shafts as close as possible or even lightly brushing if possible)

B: Hold the shaft of the motor under test in the above experiment still measuring it's static torque with varying levels of input from the generator.

C: If it works try effectively the same thing but with with a linear DC motor. (AKA a DC powered coil attracting a piece of steel, try feeding the steel or the coil)

Make an electromagnet or transformer with large hysteresis losses, see if the generator output can lower the hysteresis.

And one mentioned above:
An air-core coil placed over the shaft of a mechanically loaded motor powered by Thanes generator (preferably full-wave rectified and smoothed if it does not kill the effect) to see if it improves motor power, if it does try it again but powered by a conventional source. (ensure the current is the same in each instance.

So #1  What? (if not magnetic flux)
#2 How?
#3 How with plexi?
#4 Suggest an experiment and explain how it would be valuible, what it would tell us. (if not seemingly obvious)