Quote from: OilBarren on March 23, 2008, 04:47:05 PM

"By Faraday's law, the voltage on the coil is the rate of change of flux through the coil.
It doesn't matter one bit that the flux is confined to the shaft.
That's why transformers work, eh?"Cheers, Mr. Entropy

YES BUT TRANSFORMERS USUALLY DON'T  ROTATE AT 1000 RPM DO THEY?

Thane.

Doesn't matter. Put a coil around the shaft. Measure the current. This will tell you what the magnetic field is in the shaft. If you want to work out the absolute value, then you'll need to calibrate the coil against a known field - but you'll be able to learn a lot just by observing how the field changes when you change the "generator" operating conditions. It will be most interesting to look at the shape of it on an oscilloscope too.
PB

Quote from: polarbreeze on March 23, 2008, 09:18:22 PM

Quote from: OilBarren on March 23, 2008, 10:44:39 AM

Quote from: polarbreeze on March 23, 2008, 09:43:27 AM
The drive-frequency theory explains that too. Higher frequency means higher slip, which means higher torque, which delivers the acceleration you observed. It does not require additional electric power input because some of the power that was formerly being dissipated as heat is instead accelerating the motor.

OK NOW EXPLAIN WHY THE EFFECT IS THE SAME (ACCELERATION) WITH:

AN 18 POLE ROTOR
A 6 POLE ROTOR AND
A 2 POLE ROTOR -
A SINGLE MONO-POLE ROTOR

A 1 POLE STATOR COIL,
A 2 POLE STATOR COIL,
A 4 POLE STATOR COIL,
AN 8 POLE STATOR COIL
AND A 9 POLE STATOR COIL.

AND A TOROID COIL THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE BACK EMF IN THE AIR GAP BUT DOES INTORDUCE ROTOR FLUX INTO THE DRIVE SHAFT?

ALSO 1 MORE THEORY PLEASE...
WHY DOES THE ROTOR IN DEMO 2 SPIN FASTER AFTER THE STEEL BAR IS INSERTED BUT BEFORE THE COIL IS SHORTED?

Thane

I think the best approach will be to thoroughly analyse just one example by taking measurements and comparing them with various theories of operation. It will be very confusing to try to work with all variants at once. When a robust theory starts to emerge, then will be the time to see whether it also can be applied to other variants of the experiment. IMHO.
PB

GREAT! THANKS FOR THE OFFER!
JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU WANT TO COME TO THE LAB AND GET STARTED?

Thane

Quote from: OilBarren on March 23, 2008, 11:07:06 AM

Quote from: polarbreeze on March 23, 2008, 09:30:18 AM
The way to check that would be to look at the magnetic field at different points inside the motor.

THE ONLY PAUSIBLE WAY TO ACHIEVE THIS WOULD BE THROUGH COMPUTER MODELING AS PROPOSED BY DR. ZAHN OF MIT WHEN HE PROPOSED HIS HYSTERISIS THEORY.

SO PB HOW DOES ONE LOOK AT THE MAGNETIC FIELD INSIDE A MOTOR WITH 100% ACCURACY?

Thane

One way to do it would be to put some sense coils at strategic spots inside the motor.
Another option might be to use a Hall effect sensor but I haven't ever done that myself.
While you're about it, you could try a Ham effect sensor to monitor the baloney.
PB

PS - "100% accuracy" isn't a requirement, at least not initially. It's sufficient to gather approximate data to point us in the right direction. Refinement can come later.

PB that was good !!!

Quote from: polarbreeze on March 23, 2008, 09:31:58 PM

Quote from: OilBarren on March 23, 2008, 11:07:06 AM

Quote from: polarbreeze on March 23, 2008, 09:30:18 AM
The way to check that would be to look at the magnetic field at different points inside the motor.

THE ONLY PAUSIBLE WAY TO ACHIEVE THIS WOULD BE THROUGH COMPUTER MODELING AS PROPOSED BY DR. ZAHN OF MIT WHEN HE PROPOSED HIS HYSTERISIS THEORY.

SO PB HOW DOES ONE LOOK AT THE MAGNETIC FIELD INSIDE A MOTOR WITH 100% ACCURACY?

Thane

One way to do it would be to put some sense coils at strategic spots inside the motor.
Another option might be to use a Hall effect sensor but I haven't ever done that myself.
While you're about it, you could try a Ham effect sensor to monitor the baloney.
PB

PS - "100% accuracy" isn't a requirement, at least not initially. It's sufficient to gather approximate data to point us in the right direction. Refinement can come later.

GREAT! THANKS FOR THE OFFER!
JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU WANT TO COME TO THE LAB AND GET STARTED?

I CAN SWING BY YOUR HOUSE IN CARP ON TUESDAY AND PICK YOU UP?

Thane