Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2008, 11:16:32 AM
@ One:

Just for the record, I am getting .9 vdc and 30 mA from my two layer NS coil. (Primary windings only)  I used bare iron wire (per the patent) and bare copper wire (per the patent).  The only thing in my set-up that is zinc coated is the iron core.  I used this only because with my magnet tests in the store, this was the only thing that had a huge amount of iron in it.  I used cotton cloth to insulate the core from the windings, and cotton string to separate the iron from the copper.  I believe it is important to use cotton as said in the patent.  Why?  At this point I don't know but those that have used cotton are all getting similar numbers and those using plastic or fiberglass are getting much less.  Someone on here, sorry I can't recall who, was getting like 80 mA and they also used cotton.  I also covered the outside of my second layer in cotton as well.

I'll check on the 5F supercaps cost.  I have not bought any yet but someplace I have bookmarked a supplier of them.  Good idea on the splicing outside the winding...thanks.

I think the color you are seeing might be rust. (oxidation)  My cotton has turned a bit brown from this as well.  I think it might be possible to use insulated iron wire but have not tested that yet.

Bill

One  reason that I used  fiberglass is because it is  what I had . 

I  didn't  want to  mess  with  stips   of   old t shirts  or anything like that.

I wanted a way  that I could apply  the  insulation then   wind the coil.

My gut feeling about   all this is that  it is not  as much about the  type  if  insulation  but  the thickness  of it .

On that coil that  you  mentioned   did he use THIN  cotton?  Was the  coil  wound  nice and tight?

As  far  as I can tell  magnet  wire is used for making  coils and electromagnets  becuase  it is covered with a very thin    insulation .     because of  that thin insulation   you can get windings per inch .

As I said ..........this is my gut feeling ...... If there is  evidence  from  from other  coils that I am wrong  I would like to  hear about it .   


I did  think of one way to  apply  insulation to  the thinner wires .

Sewing  it on.

A sewing machine  set on  zig zag   should  work  great .  it  would leave a  lump on each edge ........
You would  need some guides  to keep the  wire in between  where the needle  is  going .
There might be  a  problem  getting the  wire directly over the  piece  that drags the  cloth  back a little  with each stroke,.
With the right  set up   you  would just have to straiten  out   the wire  and   stomp on the  gas
Also  the  type of insulation  you could apply would only  be limited  to  the kinds of  thread   you can find . 




So far  it looks to me like  wire size  is not that important ........and large wire makes  things alot more difficult and expensive .   
The wire  I used  was alot  thicker  than  most here use ....  it didn't seem to make  much  difference



I agree that the orange  color is  probably rust .   My iron  wire is starting to look a little orange



gary

@gary

Yes we have confirmed the cloth once again.  The audio stores sell it i'll search online again but they sell the stuffon a spool and its a mini fabric tube that slides on the wire so basically the same as sewing just alot lsess time.. As well ive built a few of theses so far probably 4 and tested diff insulation tightness wire gauge thickness. Here is the consensus the size wires your using are good Bigger the better it seems.  Magnet wire will be used for the secondary.  The primary needs large wires like we have not small, i had someting similar to 8 stand rebar tie wire abou the diameter of a bic pen and romex bare copper wire from houshold leftovers.   
                                                                                                              Joe

@ One:

I understand about using what you had lying about, I do that all the time myself.  I also agree that wrapping cotton around the wire must be a real pain.  I did not do that.  My way deviates from the patent but seems to work thus far.  I insulate the core with a cotton sleeve sewn from a sock or T shirt, then wrap one layer in bifilar style, nice and tight.  Then, I took cotton string or cord and wound that in between the copper and iron wires, this has to be done twice as there are two sides to insulate.  You just simply wind the string as you had just wound the wires.  Then, another cotton insulation between the next layer, and repeat.  I don't think the string was my idea, someone on here posted it and, yes, I had some lying about so, I used it.  It is nowhere as thin as the enamel would be on magnet wire, but way thinner than wire wrapped with cotton strips would be.  But, just beware that this is a deviation from the patent and might have a bad effect later on down the road.  I have no idea what that might be, but then, I still don't really know why this works in the first place so I am not qualified to recommend any deviation.

Joe is right about the cotton though, there may be something happening with the wet cotton that is a large part of this phenomenon that we, or even mainstream science does not know about.  The guy with the large Ma readings used cotton I am pretty sure.  It was, of course, a huge coil (especially compared to mine) and as we suspected, more surface area equals more power. (Ma.)  This also fits in with your gut feeling about tight windings, they would give more surface area of wire per inch, so that is consistent with our findings here.  I think it was Hans who said he believed the iron wire could be insulated as in "normal" modern wire.  That would make things easier but I don't know how he knew that or if it was just speculation.  Hans has a lot of good information on many subjects so he is probably right, but I am not sure as I have never tried that.

I agree with Joe's approach in that if we all stick to the patent, at least in the beginning, and achieve similar results, then we can establish a baseline from which deviation can take place, but at least we know we can go back to what worked.  I know one of his concerns is that, someone new coming in here that has not read all of the previous posts, and who could blame them, might see one of our deviation ideas and think that is how everyone is building the coils and then when it does not work for them, they will not be happy and think we are idiots.  I don't know about you, but I have been trying to hide the fact that I am an idiot my entire life.  Sometimes with limited success. Ha ha.

Bill

Thanks  Bill and Joe 


Would  it be possable  to  find  a way  to  keep  the  current information  in one place ?

A forum like this is  good for talking about  what you  are doing.   but it sucks  as a  way to store information.

I wanted  to find some  readings  that   others have taken  from their  coils . 
I  went through 2  pages  of posts before I found one post  with readings .
I just didn't have time to look for more .
   

WHat  about if we all kept a file  of  our current  info   and posted it  at or near  the   top of  even  numbered  pages ?

I  think we are on page 43 now .......  there are 40  posts per  page .   

Joe could put his  primer  with his info ........  all anyone  would need to  do to get caught  up is to go back  to the  last even numbered  page  and  start  reading ............80 posts max

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry  if I am not a good follower

I do respect the work all of you have already done

But I am an expermenter .........  when I get both of my brain  cells working at the same time I like to  go with what they come  up with . 



gary

Good idea about the most recent readings.Maybe we could get them to Joe somehow and he could post them on the very first post of his that started the thread.   

I was thinking of making a really big and fat one today, but now, I think I will make one like my others but with cotton cloth rather than silk.  The one that I made with surgical tape because it is porous and nylon works very badly, and I think the cloth does matter. NS only said cloth, My copy does not say cotton. I was just wrapping 1-2 feet ahead then winding. It worked OK.

I am glad to hear others have made more than one coil too.

QuoteBut I am an expermenter .........

I guess you are in the right place!  

off to the store,

jeanna