Quote from: OilBarren on April 29, 2008, 06:54:27 AM

Quote1. I don't think it's an "electric generator" because when the coil is shorted you cannot, of course, extract any electrical power from it - it's not generating anything except heat.

IF THE SHORTED COIL CREATES FREE ADDITIONAL TORQUE AND MAXIMUM ACCELERATION AS IT DOES AS PROVEN BY OTHERS ON THIS THREAD - THEN THE POWER REQUIRED BY THE MOTOR IS REDUCED BY THAT SAME AMOUNT.

That may be so but I was simply saying that if the output is shorted it cannot be providing any electrical power output and so cannot be considered to be an "electric generator". I didn't intend any more than that.

Quote from: OilBarren on April 29, 2008, 06:54:27 AM

Quote2. I don't think it's a "new type" of magnetic brake - it's a plain vanilla magnetic brake which, of course, can result in acceleration when you change the loading on the coils, because this reduces the braking.

BRAKES DON'T CAUSE ACCELERATION - THEY SIMPY VARY THE RATE OF DECELERATION. ACCELERATION IS CAUSED BY A FORCE OTHER THAN THE BRAKE.

Acceleration can also be caused by a reduction in the braking, can it not?

Quote from: OUman on April 29, 2008, 08:14:34 AM
That may be so but I was simply saying that if the output is shorted it cannot be providing any electrical power output and so cannot be considered to be an "electric generator". I didn't intend any more than that.

Well that was pretty much a useless point then.  Why waste everybody's time with this kind of thing?

Quote from: OilBarren on April 29, 2008, 06:54:27 AM
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ALREADY LUC HAS BEEN ABLE TO GET THE INDUCTION MOTOR RUNNING WITH LESS POWER WITH SHORTED COILS THAN THE MOTOR ON ITS OWN COMPLETELY AWAY FROM ANY COIL OR FERROMAGNETIC MATERIAL.

THIS VERY IMPORTANT TEST WILL PROVIDE VALUABLE INFORMATION ON THE AMOUNT OF ADDITIONAL TORQUE / COIL WHICH WE CAN EXPECT FROM OUR NEW COILS - IN THE ELECTRIC DUNE BUGGY.

Thane

That's great Thane.  This whole thing does need to get past any ambiguity with regard to net gain.  If there isn't one, you need to know that.  If there is one, it'll be exciting to know how much.  Luc's observations, along with hoptoad's side-by-side tests and the past work of others make me very hopeful we might hear the end of the 'brake' line of thought soon. Good luck!

Quote from: JustMe on April 29, 2008, 10:04:54 AM

Quote from: OUman on April 29, 2008, 08:14:34 AM
That may be so but I was simply saying that if the output is shorted it cannot be providing any electrical power output and so cannot be considered to be an "electric generator". I didn't intend any more than that.

Well that was pretty much a useless point then.  Why waste everybody's time with this kind of thing?

I don't think it justifies that rudeness, JustMe - it seems OK, doesn't it, that if someone suggests that a shorted coil is an electric generator, that someone else would disagree with them? Whether right or wrong, I think it's an OK discussion and if you feel it's a waste of your time, you don't have to read it - still less waste more of your valuable time replying to it!

@OUMan

Quote1. I don't think it's an "electric generator" when the coil is shorted because when the coil is shorted you cannot extract any electrical power from it - it's not generating anything except heat.

This is a very one-sided view of what can happen, If the coils in question have sufficient inter-turn capacity and self-induction then this shorted coil does in fact form a resonant LC circuit within itself in which case the coil will "radiate" a very high frequency alternating field or in the case below a capacitor can be added to the secondaries. Based on your statement I will make the assumption you have no understanding of high frequency electrical theory so I will spell this out for you----- very high frequency alternating currents de-magnetize iron cores they do not change the polarity of the field they expell all external magnetic fields. Now how do you think this would effect a permanent magnet moving away from such a coil? and what would be the optimum time to short such a coil in the presence of a moving permanent magnet?

Here is a neat patent, I wonder what could be happening here?