Quote from: OUman on May 18, 2008, 09:21:54 AM
Poo

Sorry, I don't reply to spooks, and you totally missed my point which is what you are after all paid to do.

The point is you can make a VTOL vehicle with the efficiency of a plane rather than a helicopter.
And there is a 'Hidden' point also.

But as for the non professional participants of this list I'd like to know what you think, Thane, JustMe, Larry etc...  Do you non understand it, not care, think it too off topic?  I guess not care.

That's the trick with a 'discovery', you can have something great but the world isn't all that open to ideas, you have people who do their best to misunderstand and tear down, people who might care about you but not the idea, people who care about the subject but would not listen or really want change etc...

And I'm too busy with this to consider mocking up a model to prove my point. (not that anything really needs proving, the concept proves it's self)

And given this how many ideas are lost from disinterest including possibly the person who thought of them?
I could think about that but I don't care I've got a MOT generator to assemble!

Quote from: LarryC on May 18, 2008, 04:29:06 PM
Very nice wheel if you can get that close.
However, it may be to close, causing a clogging effect. You may want to try 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 to see if you can get the effect at a lower rpm. Thane had mentioned previously that to small an air gap can cause a clogging effect.
Larry

LARRY & RON,

I BELIEVE THAT RON'S HIGH SPEED REQUIREMENT IS DUE TO THE "HEIGHT" OF HIS TRANSFORMER CORES - I POSTED A SIX CORE SETUP EARLIER WHICH CAUSED DECELERATION BECAUSE THE CORES WERE TOO LARGE AND THE TURNS RATIOS WERE TOO SMALL.

I SPENT A WEEK TRYING TO SORT THEM OUT - AND FINALLY TODAY I WAS ABLE TO GET ACCELERATION AFTER BREAKING THEM IN HALF - "HEIGH WISE".

I WILL POST SOME PHOTOS TOMORROW.

LARRY WAS CORRECT WHEN HE SUGGESTED RECTANGULAR MAGNETS FOR THE MOTS.

AFTER A WEEK OF "FAILURES" I HAVE CONCLUDED THAT IF THE CORES ARE TO BIG THERE IS NOT ENOUGH OF A FOCUSED EFFECT ON THE ROTOR'S MAGNETS.

Thane

PS
AETHER MAKE YOUR PLANE THINGY SUCH THAT IT CAN'T CRASH PLEASE.

Quote from: aether22 on May 18, 2008, 05:53:51 PM
The point is you can make a VTOL vehicle with the efficiency of a plane rather than a helicopter.
And there is a 'Hidden' point also.

I could think about that but I don't care I've got a MOT generator to assemble!

Actually, the engineering and aerodynamics were overwhelming.

For instance, it may be fairly easy to set up a support structure for the two heli's to lift the tower with tips at lets say 1 foot distance apart, but the two wings have many problems.

For example, if the two airplane wings were used with the same structure with bearing support to rotate, then if the airplane sections was run at the straight line speed that created the 1000lb lift, it would not come close to the 1000lb lift. Because of the rotational speed difference along the length of the wing, the inside of the wings would have almost no lift, while the outside would have the most, but not even close to 1000lb.

If you tried to increase the speed high enough to get the 1000lb lift, the massive wing would rip itself apart long before. You would be forced to have an extremely long support (bridge) to come close to the lift of the original plane on a straight line. The massive weight of the support structure would lose all benefits.


How's that MOT coming?

Regards,
Larry 

Quote from: LarryC on May 18, 2008, 07:18:26 PM
if the airplane sections was run at the straight line speed that created the 1000lb lift, it would not come close to the 1000lb lift.

Yes but the solution is trivial.
Change the chamber of the wing along the length, or have the average equal to the straight line speed.
Not really an issue IMO.

Quote
Because of the rotational speed difference along the length of the wing, the inside of the wings would have almost no lift, while the outside would have the most, but not even close to 1000lb.

If you tried to increase the speed high enough to get the 1000lb lift, the massive wing would rip itself apart long before.

I disagree, but the answer is to make it more suited.
The fact that a gyrocopter works shows that you can have a plane type thrust and a helicopter type rotor provide the lift so these objections are not really hitting at the heart of the matter, just a few mundane engineering issues.

Quote
You would be forced to have an extremely long support (bridge) to come close to the lift of the original plane on a straight line. The massive weight of the support structure would lose all benefits.

Again I disagree, in fact you could have a saucer shaped caft with a low friction ring around the outside with aerofoils (wings) extending out, with propellers on it keeping the ring wing thing turning.

The engineering challenges which I am personally sure are mundane and easily solved are not the point, the point is that something 'strange' is going on.
Again comparing a helicopter to a gyrocopter, both have lift provided by the same rotor blades but one needs (as a bogus example) 1/10th the power to keep aloft, why?

Why is 1/10th the motor power suddenly enough to turn those blades just because the power is directed sideways?

Quote
How's that MOT coming?

It will be doing better as soon as Thane clarifies 'Halve the height'.
Thane, do you mean you removed half the laminations but left copper coils as they were?

Quote from: aether22 on May 18, 2008, 09:07:53 PM
Yes but the solution is trivial.
Change the chamber of the wing along the length, or have the average equal to the straight line speed.
Not really an issue IMO.I disagree, but the answer is to make it more suited.
The fact that a gyrocopter works shows that you can have a plane type thrust and a helicopter type rotor provide the lift so these objections are not really hitting at the heart of the matter, just a few mundane engineering issues.Again I disagree, in fact you could have a saucer shaped caft with a low friction ring around the outside with aerofoils (wings) extending out, with propellers on it keeping the ring wing thing turning.

The engineering challenges which I am personally sure are mundane and easily solved are not the point, the point is that something 'strange' is going on.
Again comparing a helicopter to a gyrocopter, both have lift provided by the same rotor blades but one needs (as a bogus example) 1/10th the power to keep aloft, why?

Why is 1/10th the motor power suddenly enough to turn those blades just because the power is directed sideways?
It will be doing better as soon as Thane clarifies 'Halve the height'.
Thane, do you mean you removed half the laminations but left copper coils as they were?

It all sounds great, but I think that you should focus on your device.
Keep up the good work.