Quote from: aether22 on May 17, 2008, 09:58:43 PM
Now for something completely different...

@aether22.  This web page may provide some additional insight into your airplane / helicopter thought experiment:

http://www.heli-chair.com/aerodynamics_101.html

In particular, it shows that the same 300hp engine can generate 1300 pounds of thrust with a 78" airplane propeller and 3400 pounds of thrust with a 30' helicopter rotor.

Quote from: aether22 on May 18, 2008, 09:07:53 PM
Thane, do you mean you removed half the laminations but left copper coils as they were?

Reduce the overall impedance. I've already pointed out that the impedance of the coil/core is due to two things, the amount of core mass and the number of coil turns. And I've also indicated on numerous occasions that high impedance is not required nor is it desirable if you want a useful level of useable O/P

This effect will occur with most coils provided the impedance of the coil is met with the correct RPM (frequency) for that impedance.
If the impedance is too high however, no amount of upward adjustment on the RPM will invoke the effect if it isn't already apparent, and neither will it increase the effect markedly if it is marginally apparent.

Cheers

P.S.

That's because impedance increases with higher frequency. If the impedance is already too high, then it's just going to maintain that "too high" relationship as the frequency increases.
Core to coil mass ratio is a major parameter for optimum O/P performance.

Quote from: hoptoad on May 19, 2008, 02:38:14 AM
Reduce the overall impedance.

It's not the impedance.
It's the aetheric pressure, a smaller diameter makes for a denser swifter aetheric flow. (IMTCOOC)

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I've already pointed out that the impedance of the coil/core is due to two things, the amount of core mass and the number of coil turns. And I've also indicated on numerous occasions that high impedance is not required nor is it desirable if you want a useful level of useable O/P

Then why did the automotive coil work?????
It has a far far larger impedance.

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This effect will occur with most coils provided the impedance of the coil is met with the correct RPM (frequency) for that impedance.

And how does that agree with the observation that something is moving through the shaft from generator to motor?

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If the impedance is too high however, no amount of upward adjustment on the RPM will invoke the effect if it isn't already apparent, and neither will it increase the effect markedly if it is marginally apparent.

I suspect that your effect is the same as Thanes and that due to your design you created a great enough aetheric force it pushed through the plastic which is not unexpected in the least.
Some of your observations may play a role in the effect only under certain conditions, I am not discounting what you found but I do not think thanes device would work if I assumed things work the way you state.

And before anyone orders me back to work, I have got everything setup for the test with the MOT and just need to let glue dry and then it's pretty much done. (Gorilla Grip, not bad, not brilliant, I am wanting to try out the JB weld someone mentioned, plus has my initials!)

Though I am discouraged by i_Ron's 'success' which seems to indicate a requirement for unreachable speeds I am encouraged by Thane's modification in reducing core size, hopefully it is archived in the way I imagine.

Thane, tell me when you send that coil and what the shipping costs are, that and I need to send you a bit more for the Rotor, send to Luc's again?
It seems I should just setup an automatic payment ;)
Or have you got enough funding not to need my my pittance I say hopefully ;)

Quote from: aether22 on May 19, 2008, 04:28:42 AM
It's not the impedance.
It's the aetheric pressure, a smaller diameter makes for a denser swifter aetheric flow. (IMTCOOC)Then why did the automotive coil work??
It has a far far larger impedance.

Yes it worked, though poorly, at S/C, without any useful O/P, other than observing acceleration. (which is still cool).
It also shows what I've been saying all along, that the effect will occur in any coil within a range of parameters. The primary parameter related to frequency. (RPM and number of magnet pairs)

Everything has an optimum range, and going too high in impedance will push the effect out of optimum range. Same applies to going too low. The frequency required at very low impedance is much higher which requires higher RPM and/or greater number of magnet pairs.

You should also have noticed in the automotive coil that the high impedance was more a result of the great number of coil turns (with a high DC resistance) hence a greater coil mass compared to a much smaller core mass than the ones Thane was previously using.

Remember, impedance is not just derived from the coil turns, it is derived from the size (mass) of the iron core as well.

An important factor is the ratio of impedance created by the iron core to the impedance created by the copper coil turns.
Another important factor is the actual coil mass to core mass ratio. If you want a useful O/P and acceleration, that is!

In open circuit mode, the automotive coil voltage is very high. But put a mere 10 watt 12 volt globe on the O/P and the voltage will most likely drop well below the 12 volts needed to drive the globe at full wattage, because the DC resistance alone combined with the inductive reactance will inhibit the current immensely.

I have never said that impedance is the cause of the effect. Impedance is one of the keys to understanding both the cause of the effect, and harnessing it usefully.

Quote from: aether22
And how does that agree with the observation that something is moving through the shaft from generator to motor?I suspect that your effect is the same as Thanes and that due to your design you created a great enough aetheric force it pushed through the plastic which is not unexpected in the least.
Some of your observations may play a role in the effect only under certain conditions, I am not discounting what you found but I do not think thanes device would work if I assumed things work the way you state.

I have never once stated that something is moving through the shaft from generator to motor?
Thane may or not have said something to that effect but I have never said that.

As for assumptions, don't make any. Instead, build, gather empirical data, learn from it and share it. You will only be able to predict what is likely to happen with a given configuration, when you do understand the underlying cause of the effect.  And that will only happen when you've studied it under a wide range of loading, impedance and frequency conditions. Studying it yourself will either reinforce your aether theory or rule it out.

I personally do not think that aether has the slightest bearing on this effect.

Quote from: aether22
Though I am discouraged by i_Ron's 'success' which seems to indicate a requirement for unreachable speeds I am encouraged by Thane's modification in reducing core size, hopefully it is archived in the way I imagine.

Why would you be discouraged by i_Rons success. ?  i_Rons and Nali2001, both had positive results which confirm that the effect is easily achievable with a variety of coils and motors. And 3,000 RPM is everyday stuff, hardly an unreachable speed. The most common speed range for industrial motors is from 1500 to 5000 RPM unloaded. Hardly frightening stuff. Use a smaller diameter rotor if the idea of huge centrifugal forces bothers you.

Thanes reduction in core size amounts to a reduction in core contributed impedance, and total impedance also, if he wound the same number or less of turns on the smaller core. If he rewound the entire length of wire used on the larger core onto a smaller core, then the coil contributed impedance will have increased significantly due to a greater number of windings over a smaller diameter, but the core contributed impedance would still have reduced. More importantly, the ratio of coil impedance and mass to core impedance and mass, in either case, would have increased.

Cheers

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Yes it worked, though poorly, at S/C, without any useful O/P, other than observing acceleration. (which is still cool).

DEAR HOPTOAD,

I KNOW YOU ARE A KEEN TEACHER - SO I WOULD ASK YOU RESPECTFULLY TO STOP INFERRING THAT THERE IS "NO USEFUL OUTPUT."

IT HAS NO EFFECT ON ME AS I KNOW IT TO BE INCORRECT BUT YOU MAY NEGATIVELY INFLUENCE ANOTHER READER - WHICH WOULD PUT YOU IN PB, OUmon TERRITORY.

THE FACTS ARE:

1)
WHEN PROPERLY MATCHED THE HV COIL CAN COMPLETELY ELIMINATE THE HC LENZ EFFECT AND PRODUCE ANY AMOUNT OF OUTPUT POWER DESIRED.

2)
HE HV COILS CAN ALSO EXCEED THE HC LENZ EFFECT AND CAUSE THE SYSTEM TO ACCELERATE UNDER HC LOADING - WITH CONTINUALLY INCREASING OUTPUT.

3)
THE HV OUTPUT CAN BE STEPPED DOWN TROUGH AN ADDITIONAL TRANSFORMER OR STORED IN A CAPACITOR PROVIDING USEFUL OUTPUT.

4)
THE HV OUTPUT IS OPTIMIZED AT SHORT CIRCUIT IF THAT IS WHAT IS INTENDED (PROVIDING USEFUL ACCELERATION AS ABOVE) BUT IT CAN ALSO BE EMPLOYED THROUGH A LOAD WHICH WOULD ONLY SERVE TO DIMINISH THE EFFECT SOMEWHAT - WHICH IS STILL USEFUL IF IT SERVES A DESIRED PURPOSE.

IT APPEARS THAT YOU HAVE SOME PERSONAL INVESTMENT IN THIS THREAD WHICH SEEMS TO CLOUD YOUR OBJECTIVITY - AND MAKES YOUR POST RATHER COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU TAKE ULI UP ON HIS OFFER AND GO AND ASSIST HIM AND DO SOMETHING REAL - HAVE YOU CONSIDERED HIS OFFER AND IF NOT WHY? - AGAIN STARTING TO SOUND PBish. TALK IS CHEAP!

ALSO WHY NOT BUILD ONE OF THESE DEVICES AND CONTRIBUTE IN THAT WAY - YOU CAN SEE HOW BADLY AETHER IS F_CKING UP BUT HE IS STILL CONTRIBUTING LOTS OF USEFUL STUFF. I_RON AND LARRY'S POSTS ARE ALSO TANGIBLE AND CREDIBLE BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING THIS - NOT SOMETHING SAME ONLY DIFFERENT.

NOW AETHER,

CAN YOU TELL US IN 1000 WORDS OR LESS HOW YOU THINK AETHER IS PRODUCED?
WHAT EFFECT IS HAS?
AND HOW IT CAN BE OPTIMIZED?

THE CONCEPT OF AETHER HAS NO RELEVANCE FOR ME AND YOU MAY AS WELL BE TALKING ABOUT BUBBLE GUM.

AND NO - I AM NOT FINANCING YOUR RESEARCH (ANYMORE THAN I ALREADY HAVE) BY DIVERTING MORE FUNDS TO COVER THE COST OF SHIPPING YOU SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN BUILD IN 1 - 2 HOURS - IF YOU FOLLOW THE SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS.

ULI IS COMING THIS WEEK I BELIEVE AND I WILL ASK HIM IF HE WANTS TO DO IT.

FINALLY FOR ANYONE READING THIS WHO WANTS TO HAVE A GUARANTEED WORKING DEVICE OF THEIR OWN - WITHOUT THE BURDEN OF DOING THE ACTUAL WORK (OR FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS) - BUT WHO STILL WANTS TO LEARN - THEN LET ME KNOW AND I WILL BUILD AND SHIP YOU ONE WITH THE APPROPRIATE COSTS.

THANKS
Thane