DEAR AETHER22,

PLEASE STOP SPECULATING ABOUT MY MOTIVES - I SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE 3 HOURS PER DAY TO DEBATE I HAVE WORK TO DO.

Sorry, I kind of took what you said personally, and I guess wanted to get you to say something.

I was just trying to find what power your Ryobi is, I recall you saying it was of a lower power than mine but the only mention I can find now is 200 watt but not sure that is right.

My bench grinder is 175w and I just looked at a hardware store and the smallest motor they had was a 200w Ryobi.
So if you can tell me the watt rating that would help.
Also again I'd ask you to send that coil as soon as practicable, I'll pay whatever you require (eventually) I just need to get this working.

Vince, what wattage motor do you have? With mine being lower powered than anything currently available I'm not sure is being too high powered is the issue, maybe motors voltage or number of turns is the issue.

Also Vince, are you still using the light dimmer or did the problems induce you to get a variac?


BTW, to complete the changes to the current generator in hope of getting the effect to start working I need a product called JB weld, well when i looked say a month ago for it i found there was an NZ website for the product, now I can only find the website by archive.org's wayback machine, and searching for it online I find that this guy has been selling thousands on NZ's main auction site for reasonable prices, but no current Auction, the last one ended YESTERDAY!!  Hopefully it's because he doesn't put them on again until Monday I hope but if not then it could just be the worst timing ever.

Quote from: aether22 on May 23, 2008, 09:05:44 AM
... I am going to take one more shot at trying to explain why if two coils are the same size weight and shape why more turns will not have a larger inductance if it is a generator or transformer coil.

Aether, we now agree on the theory; however, I do not agree with your conclusion quoted above. In fact, I think the theory predicts the opposite. Inductance is proportional to the square of the number of turns. (Assuming the same core material, core dimensions and winding height, which agrees with your own assumptions). 

Quote from: aether22 on May 23, 2008, 09:05:44 AM
... what I would like to make very clear as it should be from the circuit simulator agreeing with me that according to known electrical principles the number of turns (or inductance) has no effect of the energy that can be pulled from a coil.

I'm not sure what you mean by the term "pulled" but I think I disagree with your conclusion here too. The amount of energy stored in an inductor for a given current is proportional to its inductance.

Quote from: OUman on May 24, 2008, 09:51:11 PM
So, that's all true but I'm not sure where it gets us in terms of new discoveries because that's just conventional text-book calculations. What is the point you were making?

No offence aether22 but most of your theories seem to come from the aether!
For a person who hasn't yet succeeded in creating the effect, you sure seem to have a lot of FACTS up your sleeve! 

When I first came to this thread I said the effect was due to a phase change in the counter mmf to induction mmf relationship. But I never detailed the reasons, which are very simple and explainable with conventional theory.

If you bothered to check the last link I posted, you will see that induced current lags voltage.

Here it is again. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/electric/phase.html

The voltage (pressure) is produced by the passing magnets (changing pressure), and manifests as current in the coils when there is a load. This load forms part of the impedance (Z) triangle of RLZ in the phasor diagrams shown. When you increase the load (lower the resistance) the phase angle increases.
Counter MMF is produced by the current in the coil, and it also arises out of phase with the coil current that is producing it.

Conventionally speaking, counter mmf is said to be 180 degrees out of phase and is therefore oppositional to the inducing MMF. In reality no inductor is perfect, and the phase is more likely to be between 170 - 179 degrees out of phase depending on the inductors characteristics.

When there is a load placed on the coil, the phase angle of the coil current increases as the resistive load decreases towards S/C.
The resulting counter mmf  phase angle changes with respect to the inducing MMF. As the counter MMF approaches 90 degrees out of phase with the inducing MMF it approaches zero opposition.

Frequency plays an important role, because the X_L of the inductor increases with frequency, so the current phase angle will also increase with it.

Whether the counter MMF phase change can be pushed below 90 degrees and produce additional torque, (above the torque with no coil setup present) as Thane says his setup has done, is still open to question to me. It can only be accepted as proof if others are able to replicate this one particular claimed aspect of Thanes setup.

In the meantime, I'm still impressed with Nali2001's results, which showed clearly that HV coils are not a pre requisite for acceleration and practical electrical O/P at the same time from a single coil.

Cheers

Quote from: OUman on May 25, 2008, 07:11:50 AM
Aether, we now agree on the theory; however, I do not agree with your conclusion quoted above. In fact, I think the theory predicts the opposite. Inductance is proportional to the square of the number of turns. (Assuming the same core material, core dimensions and winding height, which agrees with your own assumptions). 

I'm not sure what you mean by the term "pulled" but I think I disagree with your conclusion here too. The amount of energy stored in an inductor for a given current is proportional to its inductance.

I guess it's hard to be clear sometimes

What I mean is the change in inductance is offset by the higher voltage and what would otherwise be twice the MMF. (due to doubling the number of turns)
So yes you have 4 times the inductance but double the voltage so only half (not a quarter) the current and with double the turns a constant MMF/ampere turns.

I just mean that the increased inductance has no effect on the fundamental qualities in a generator coil, at least electrically.

I actually said in the same post that inductance is 4 times higher so obviously I did not strictly mean that inductance isn't changed. (but that the counter voltage the coil feels from self induction remains equal and opposite to the primary inducing voltage (from the rotor, assuming a constant ampere turns) in a shorted coil regardless of the number of turns so both appear to cancel out with the same MMF being produced)


Also with more thought I have realized that inductance is not a set figure for a steel cored coil, for instance if you put in a small electrical input inductance will not saturate the core, but if you put in higher it will and inductance will fall.
It also seems plausible that with tiny electrical inputs some cores may not align well if it is a little magnetically hard and have a lower inductance than if you put in a stronger input that would align the domains.

Still that is only relevant if we are talking about a different MMF produced by the coil and here we are not.


note: quite a few tiny edits have been made to stop any further misunderstanding, or possibly word games?
Clearly I am bad at saying things clearly but possibly the most simple is:

If you have the same ampere turns (amps x turns) you produce the same magnetic field. If you disagree with that you really need to read a book!
And if you double the number of turns you double the voltage picked up from both the coils own EMF/MMF and the rotors EMF/MMF so relatively everything remains the same.

Well what you saw in my video's is like over a year old. And never went much further then what is showed. And I have since moved on to other projects. But I'm always on the lookout for new ideas to upgrade old stuff.

Steven

Quote from: CRANKYpants on May 24, 2008, 10:03:32 PM
DEAR AETHER22,

PLEASE STOP SPECULATING ABOUT MY MOTIVES - I SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE 3 HOURS PER DAY TO DEBATE I HAVE WORK TO DO.

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM I_RON/STEVE AS TO WHAT IS GOING ON WITH STEVE'S DEVICE?

I AM INSTALLING NEW MAGNETS ON MY ROTOR WHICH ARE 5X STRONGER THAN THER OLD ONES.

WHEN I HAVE SOMETHING WORTHWHILE TO SHARE I WILL.

Thane