Shorting coil gives back more power

[ramset]

Mario,
Its definitely On topic!, Richard Willis is opening two new factories for this!
Please post em.
Chet

[gyulasun]

Hi Mario,

Thanks for the circuit and the pictures. You use an interesting circuit with the 555, the frequency control potmeter is in series with the oscillator capacitor, have not seen such connection but if you are happy with it then no problem of course.
I cannot explain yet why a single chopping pulse gives more 'juice' than multiple choppings, hopefully sooner or later an answer will be found.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

right now I don't have the whole circuit on paper like it is right now, but I've attached the basic schematic of the 555 circuit I've been using over the last  few years for many solid state experiments.
I said hall but right now I went from the wheel to solid state so I'm using one 555 circuit to drive the bottom coil (attached pic) at resonance with a cap to simulate the rotating magnet, it has 100 feet og 18AWG wire. On top of that is the big coil which I filled up with 23AWG I believe. Both cores are ferrite.
Since the 555 signal is hitting the power coil at sine peak for resonance I can use the same signal to drive the two mosfets that short the generator coil, convenient right?
To chop that signal I send it to the trigger input of a second 555 circuit and send this signal to the fet driver. You asked about the width, I went from a few % (very narrow) to 100% duty cycle which is like just using the first main pulse. Whatever I do, the output cap has more voltage with just the one main pulse, when I start chopping, whatever frequency, output gets lower. I have more spikes but lower amplitude.

I use a third 555 circuit fed from a separate supply to discharge the cap to the little 240/110 - 12V toroid transformer.

Mario

[woopy]

hi all

this thread is really taking off

thank's to all for sharing

good luck at all

laurent

[popolibero]

Here you go:

[gyulasun]

Hi yssuraxu_697,

While I may agree to a certain degree with your saying "I seem to know the tech stuff", LOL,  I by no means know everything, unfortunately.
I have tinkered a lot several years ago on different pulsed circuits when my circumstances both in free time and in lab wise were much better, so when I give technical advice on something to others in forums it is based on earlier hands on experiment and a fairly good amount of background knowledge.  And I never claim or say anything I am not sure of.
Unfortunately, I have been very limited in doing serious tinkering nowadays. And I have not witnessed any extra energy in circuits which clearly could be utilized as being excess over the input.

And I do not think it may be time for me to step in with measurements, particularly in this coil shorting circuit, for I have not claimed anything unusual with it... rather I tried to give some help by pointing out possible problems in the shown schematics so that at least the circuit itself should be as good as possible.
I also think that it is time to step in for those persons why claim extra output: they simple ought to show it with correct measurements data, not with words, that is all.

rgds, 
Gyula

Ok guys, lets quit playing

My testrig is small very low power pulse motor.

Currents status is:
INPUT: 6.55V 15mA = 0.1W
OUTPUT: 0.024W (efficent up to 160V, maximal usable output at 250V)
BEST EFFICENCY: 24%

It must be said that output seems to have zero effect on the input and rotor speed. So it is only 24% but it's totally free. The number is carefully calculated and tested over and over and I found it very good for such low powered mechanical design made from crap lying around. I could extract much more in addition to that 24% from that motor-generator when using additional regular generator coils that put some load on the rotor. But this is not the point, point is the timeline of shorting process:

0ms unused generator pulse (2ms)
2ms drive pulse from battery* (6ms)
8ms backspike (0.1ms)
8.1ms resonant ringing (~6ms)

*yes, this means I short the drive coil, not separate gen coil

Explained this means that first starts the sine wave from natural generation from approaching magnet. Then I connect the battery for 6ms, this drives the disc. After disconnecting the battery there is sparking at the reed, duration is only 0.1ms, most of the energy gets dissipated because of too much microsparking. This can be seen on the rectified shot - no usable energy in backspike - it just gets radiated all over the place. Then resonant ringing kicks in, excited by sparking. Duration is same as drive pulse. And when viewing rectifier and cap shots under load we see that cap charging duration for given load is around 0.4ms.
I have no reference point to sync all the shots but it is clear that cap is being charged only by resonant ringing.
For me the point is that there is real energy in resonant ringing and I doubt that shorting will give any meaningful output when coil does not get excited at its natural resonance. Likely all the hell breaks loose if some modern Tesla shorts also the peaks of resonant ringing. I have seen random hits when amplitude is much larger than regular.
Works just like hydraulic shockwave. Shock the shockwave and for real kicks...

This explains the spark gaps in almost every claimed OU design - no spark - no ringing - no good stuff.
Maybe it is possible with ultra-fast transistors also, I'm no specialist on this.
I tried with RF transistor and got nothing. i_ron also got nothing so far.

Maybe is time for Gyula to step in with some real-world self-made example and scope shots, he seems to know the tech stuff. I would be really glad to avoid spark gaps and such because of RF emission and unstable operation.