PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[JouleSeeker]

Steven

i'm thinking that it might be necessary for the different contributors to 'characterise' their caps (as well as get a more accurate reading of their value)

iirc you did this yourself a while back, when you first started testing the possibility of using caps to measure Pin

i've just charged my test system's cap to 2.55V and let it self-discharge for 10 minutes (a convenient value, similar in length to the discharge period for this system)

the cap discharged to 2.36V in 600 seconds, so the average self-discharge power (effectively an additional parallel load to the system) was 0.78uW, nearly 20% of the 3.8uW drawn by the total system

since the cap self-discharge is occurring completely in parallel to the main test, and is not involved in the functioning of the circuit, it seems logical to remove this variable from everyone's Pin results (since everyone's cap will have different self-discharge rates)

what do you think?
thanks
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

I agree, NP -- we should characterize the cap used for the test; and this is not difficult to do as you point out. 


Bill: 

I do agree it would be a good idea for all to use the same led though.

And Nick notes that Costa Rica has Radio Shack also...  The cost of a high-brightness red LED should hopefully not be too great for all experimenters...   If anyone has one to recommend, by RS part number, that would be helpful...  NP?  Xee2?

Nick -- I'm running my sj1 circuit just for you, with a single AA battery.  Will report V-drop tomorrow.  Start:  1.623 volts (15h03 my time).

Dimbulb:

RE: the video smart_scare_crow
let's use a thermal wattmeter,  I agree, I think this is progress
when everybody has one of these there will be enough data
to create the kind of catalyst necessary to really take off.

Welcome to the discussion, Dimbulb.    Yes, although these thermal wattmeters are not so easy (or cheap) to procure these days.  I have a lead on one and will try to make it available to other users -- this will allow a test of Poutput to go along with the "standardized method" for measuring Pinput we've come up with here.  And thus, we can reliably evaluate efficiency n. 

(There may be other methods that are just as good....  but the discussion here suggests that the cap/time method for measuring Pinput is easy to do and worthwhile.  We'll see about calorimetric methods as we get more actual data on these...)

[xee2]

Very low power Joule thief. Video at >>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIQ2D1pqZNc

[dimbulb]

I agree, NP -- we should characterize the cap used for the test; and this is not difficult to do as you point out. 


Bill: 
And Nick notes that Costa Rica has Radio Shack also...  The cost of a high-brightness red LED should hopefully not be too great for all experimenters...   If anyone has one to recommend, by RS part number, that would be helpful...  NP?  Xee2?

Nick -- I'm running my sj1 circuit just for you, with a single AA battery.  Will report V-drop tomorrow.  Start:  1.623 volts (15h03 my time).

Dimbulb:
Welcome to the discussion, Dimbulb.    Yes, although these thermal wattmeters are not so easy (or cheap) to procure these days.  I have a lead on one and will try to make it available to other users -- this will allow a test of Poutput to go along with the "standardized method" for measuring Pinput we've come up with here.  And thus, we can reliably evaluate efficiency n. 

(There may be other methods that are just as good....  but the discussion here suggests that the cap/time method for measuring Pinput is easy to do and worthwhile.  We'll see about calorimetric methods as we get more actual data on these...)

Thankyou for the welcome,
I see a bird thermal milliwattmeter, I think this would have the right scale.
http://www.bird-technologies.com/resources/discontinued/bec_manuals/6300-368.pdf

I have seen RF mW meters not too difficult to build.
If it could be modified and shown that it works alright.
I have seen that amatuer radio qrp contest clubs
have come up with a meter. they seem to be
measuring OU also.

[NickZ]

  @ Xee2:
   Thanks for the diagram.  I have been looking at all the Jt theads, and all the videos for years.  It makes my head spin trying to decide which of the hundred circuits is worth replicating. What really interest me is the self running aspect, otherwise these circuits don't offer much of an incentive. If you have a source of 3 or 4 volts the best thing is to connect the leds direct to the source, and obtain the full power and light intensity from each led. But I know there are some anomalies with these circuits, once you hit on resonance which is not going to happen unless the voltage and frequency is stable.
   I will try to follow the best longest running BwJt circuits as they become available.  The 1" goldmine core is the best deal out there, but not available here, so some of us have to make due with what we have.
    JS:  Thanks for the test on your device running on a single AA,  I really appreciate that. A regular AA non-rechargeable is 600 mA not the 2700mA like Xee uses, as that one has more than 4 times the output current.

[NickZ]

   @ Xee2:
   You know what comes to mind is that the meters and scopes are not giving us an accurate reading on this type of recycling circuits.  They are being fooled by these circuits. Otherwise you would get the 22 years run time, but you don't, nor does anyone else that has these super low draw readings.
So, again I don't think we are really getting accurate readings on these device's true consumption. 
The best test is the run time on a single AA, in my opinion.  A 1000 micro farad cap will not stay on the sweet spot long enough to notice any real gain and the circuits will just discharge the cap, as you will notice with the tests.
This will also happen when using an AA, but to a lesser degree, and so it should be a slightly more accurate way to see the anomalies.
   Now, if the circuit running on a cap lasts a month, or several months,  then we could say that the circuit is running on well, nothing,  or something,  but what.  To me there is only one answer, that at the right frequency they become an Aether conversion device.