PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[MarkE]

JouleSeeker many people have claimed to be readying boxes that supply endless energy for free.  And then we wait.

I listened to the first interview.  These people have been running a small solar and wind installation business and dabbled with HHO on the side.  I believe the total number of solar panels they said they have sold is about 250.  Yet, they offer the preposterous boast that they are: "The #1 Renewable Energy Company in the US".   They also say that the box processes three different types of energy source.

I see generally three possibilities here:

1. Their box is a chassis that houses batteries and power conversion equipment that is supplied externally by various combinations of off-grid power sources such as:  solar PV, wind turbines, and/or back-up gas or diesel generators.

2. These guys who have a small solar and wind power installation business have discovered three miracle energy sources.  And, for some reason one miracle is not good enough even in multiples, so they have packaged all three miracles into the one box.

3. It is just an out and out fraud like so many others that have come and gone.

Given their business history and their location on the plains, I think that the first possibility is by far the most likely.

[markdansie]

JouleSeeker many people have claimed to be readying boxes that supply endless energy for free.  And then we wait.

I listened to the first interview.  These people have been running a small solar and wind installation business and dabbled with HHO on the side.  I believe the total number of solar panels they said they have sold is about 250.  Yet, they offer the preposterous boast that they are: "The #1 Renewable Energy Company in the US".   They also say that the box processes three different types of energy source.

I see generally three possibilities here:

1. Their box is a chassis that houses batteries and power conversion equipment that is supplied externally by various combinations of off-grid power sources such as:  solar PV, wind turbines, and/or back-up gas or diesel generators.

2. These guys who have a small solar and wind power installation business have discovered three miracle energy sources.  And, for some reason one miracle is not good enough even in multiples, so they have packaged all three miracles into the one box.

3. It is just an out and out fraud like so many others that have come and gone.

Given their business history and their location on the plains, I think that the first possibility is by far the most likely.

I actually believe number 1 is most likely as they have now had a set back regarding the longevity of their device. Their batteries most likely ran flat or they stuffed a new battery up in a very short time.


I also found it amusing their claims regarding the solar trailer. Many companies manufacture these and I have evaluated one first hand (was filmed doing so) in California that was used for film sites and back up for cell phone towers. The addition of a wind  turbine is not new either


There behavior from now on will determine if they are scam artist or not. Unlike Sterling who is already fund raising to purchase one himself. last time he did that he raised $6500 for a device that never worked or he even took delivery of and pocketed the money. That to me is not exactly ethical.


Kind Regards

[ramset]

Jouleseeker
Don't they call your new home state of Missouri the "show me state".
those fellows in Kansas should have no problems when you ask them to "show you" ?[its to be expected]

seems like a little trip would be nice?

thanks for sharing this.

Chet

[JouleSeeker]

  Thanks for comments.
 
Its true that MidTech is waiting for a component in order to fix something on their working prototype.  Apparently there was an overheating problem.  (This seems an understandable glitch, given the nature of prototypes.)

I may be able to see the prototype working, by the end of the month.  What tests should I do?  I'm open for suggestions.  A few thoughts:

1.  Ideally I would be allowed to look inside, to see what batteries and large capacitors are in there.  Presumably just one battery to get it started -- how many Amp-hours is it?  Deep cycle or not?  What type of battery, lead-acid?

2.  I'd like to see it run drawing at 2 kW on the load -- I have a couple of small space heaters and can measure the power they are drawing during the test.  How long will it run 2,000 watts?
Consider (from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0oG7mEsm9ZSch4AvBhXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzZDBlYWc1BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1NNRTI2Ml8x?qid=20090202214711AAvg3WF )

If the actual load is just 100W, we have this quick analysis:

Your actual load is 100W...
With no losses the current is 100W/12V = 8.33A
This means you need 8.33Ah capacity for each hour of running, with provisos as below.

WIth a 7Ah battery that implies 8.33A/7Ah = 0.84 hours
The nominal voltage of a 12V battery is 12.6V, but you will be lucky to have 12V at the inverter terminals.

Battery ratings..
The battery will be rated at the 10 or even 20 hour rate, so that is a current of 0.7A or 0.35A for a 7Ah battery. The current you are drawing is 10 times that, in reality too much for this battery. The battery capacity is derated considerably, so the implied 100W running time of 50 minutes becomes maybe less than half an hour.

In practice the losses due to the inverter must be added as part of the load. As this is a low load for an 800W inverter it would just be a stab in the dark to say what its losses are, unless you can measure the actual current drawn from the battery when running under that load. My feeling anything from a few watts to 150W losses. It could more than double the load. You could be down to 10 minutes if the battery doesn't get overheated. Batteries are also less capable in cold conditions. A 7Ah battery is more suitable for loads about 10W.

Get the drift? You need a larger battery. The load is more consistent with an 80Ah size deep cycle battery. This would run more like expected, up to 9h, perhaps somewhat less due to inverter losses.

So with a 1,000 W load, this is a real drain on a battery, but an 80Ah battery should theoretically last for about 9/10 = 0.9 h (less given inverter-type losses).  For 2000W, less than 1/2 hour running,  and this requires an 12V amazing battery to put out so much current!  Roughly speaking, the current draw would be at least 2000W/12V = 167 Amps.  Wow!  quite the battery...   Do you see my point?

So these basic tests -
A.  Can it run a 2kW load?
B.  For how long?

I think I can quickly rule out batteries as the source of power -- several hours of running at 2kW for example. 
But perhaps I've overlooked something?  amazing batteries?  you tell me. 
Remember, the box is just 4-feet tall x 18" x18"  (how many batteries can you cram in there anyway?) 

3. They may allow me to look inside the "mechanical black box", to see the mechanism that connects the motor to the generator.
No doubt proprietary, and I will honor that.

4.  I would like to get a look at the output waveform using my oscilloscope with no load and with a 2kW load.

What other tests would your recommend?

[JouleSeeker]

Here is a photo of the device (outside).  I'd want to make sure there are no wires leading into it, e.g. up from the floor.

Test 5:  I will ask that they run the 2kW-load test with the door of the device opened, so that I can take temperature measurements of the various components as a function of time. I have a few IR probes.  I would like to see (for instance) how hot the battery gets...

Test 6:  Also, how noisy is it?  where does the noise come from?