Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[synchro1]

@hoptoad
this recent posts reminds me the long core rods I used in an Adams type motor, but the other way around. That is: sliding an output coil at the tail of a long driving coil rod.
I know it is a very different concept, as the output coil was energized by the motor pulse, but anyway, I noticed that loading this collector coil, no additional drag nor lenz observed, neither a rotation decrease.
The long core, in fact produced stronger thrusts than a short one and thus faster rotor rpm.
By the way, thanks so much for those totallydamped pages, I constantly use a lot the N19 schematic with excellent results.
cheers

Can you upload a video of that?

[gyulasun]

....

The only way to test is to make two separate coils , one with a certain wire length wound like normal and one with the same amount of total wire length but wound as a bifilar coil.

.....

Hi Farmhand,

I think what you wrote above is important. Why I mention this?

Member synchro1 referred to (in this link http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/bifilar_electromagnet.htm ) a bifilar electromagnet test where a given length of wire is used:  first a 100 turns of coil was made onto a nail and then a 50 turns of coil was made BIFILARLY onto another nail. This latter bifilarly wound coil was then connected in series aiding and obviously it had then the same 100 turns like the non-bifilar coil on the first nail. Now I quote from the text under the picture in the link:

"Now connect the battery to the end leads of the single wound nail.  This will energize the coil and cause the nail to become magnetic.  Now pick up as many paper clips with the nail as you can.

OK, connect the battery to the ends of the bifilar wound coil.  Now pick up as many paper clips as you can with this electromagnet.

The same amount of voltage, from the same battery, produces twice as much energy in the bifilar wound coil as in the single wound coil.  This is just one of the many techniques Nikola Tesla used to make his inventions highly efficient."

So everybody is supposed to make his own conclusion as to what amount of paper clips are picked up by the first and the second nail?  i.e. which is stronger?

I have not done this paperclip test. I wonder if synchro1 or anybody else here have already done that? and if yes, with what results?

It is one thing to imply something and another thing to speak after a real test.

A coil made on a nail with 100 turns has (say) an L value inductance. A coil made on a similar sized nail with 50 turns has about L/4 value inductance, provided the second nail has the same permeability like the first one and we use the same wire gauge like on the first nail. The L/4 inductance value comes from the fact that the relationship between the number of turns and the inductance is quadratic and this works backwards too.
Now if the coil on the the second nail is wound bifilarly i.e. using two parallel guided insulated wires to make the 50 turns and then the two windings are connected in series aiding fashion so the total number of turns is 100 just like on the first nail, the question is what resultant inductance the bifilar coil will have on the second nail? 

Some years ago I wound such two test coils on a paper tube in the fashion like I just described to see the L values on an L meter and if my memory does not fail I got very close (a little bit less) the L value inductance for the second coil (i.e. for the bifilar) like the first coil had. If the strength of an electromagnet is defined by Amperturns then such two coils, made as described, perform very nearly in an equal way.  Again, everybody is welcome to do the paperclip test, I did not do it back then because the inductance measurements on the two coils I made did not force me to do paperclip tests.

It is sure that if one makes a normal coil from a given length of wire and measure the inductance, then one uses two parallel guided wires of the same length and make a bifilarly wound coil  (i.e. use twice as long wire as before) one will have nearly 4 times as high inductance when connecting the two wires in series aiding fashion, no problem with this.  In a bifilarly wound coil the mutual inductance due to the close coupling factor between the two wires can increase inductance four times.

I agree with your tests.

rgds, Gyula

PS  Folks, I am not questioning Tesla patent on Coil for electromagnets, Tesla clearly described why he used two pieces of wires and what benefits such wire arrangement had.

[MileHigh]

Farmhand:

Both windings measure 251 uH each, together in series the top of one winding connected to the bottom the other and I get exactly four times the inductance of each winding alone at 1004 uH.

The resonant frequency was a mere 265 kHz. Which would indicate a self capacitance of 1440 pF for one winding alone and a self capacitance of only 360 pF for both coils in series.

Thanks for doing those measurements.  Let's crunch the numbers to check the capacitive and inductive energy stored in the pseudo-bifilar coil.  Note the capacitance is all about the geometry of the windings and the permittivity of the dielectric so that likely explains the 360 pF.

Let's assume that the coil has one amp going through it and the voltage across the coil is 12.6 volts.

E(coil) = 502 micro-Joules.

E(cap) = 0.029 micro-Joules

So there is about 17,000 times as much inductive energy stored in the pseudo-bifilar coil as compared to capacitive energy with the initial conditions of one amp current and 12.6 volts potential.  That shows how the capacitance is insignificant for most situations as I previously stated.

I will make some comments about measuring the delayed Lenz effect later.

MileHigh

[hoptoad]

@hoptoad
this recent posts reminds me the long core rods I used in an Adams type motor, but the other way around. That is: sliding an output coil at the tail of a long driving coil rod.
I know it is a very different concept, as the output coil was energized by the motor pulse, but anyway, I noticed that loading this collector coil, no additional drag nor lenz observed, neither a rotation decrease.
The long core, in fact produced stronger thrusts than a short one and thus faster rotor rpm.
By the way, thanks so much for those totallydamped pages, I constantly use a lot the N19 schematic with excellent results.
cheers

The sliding output coil sounds interesting. Glad you have been able to use some of my posted information in your experiments.

Cheers

[synchro1]

@Gyulasum,

               The bifilar nail core experiment yields a 100% increase in magnetic field strength in the Tesla winding. The single wire coil attracts two paper clips and the bifilar four. Milehigh maintains that the bifilar draws twice the amperage to generate twice the magnetic field. That's a very shallow explanation. What advantage would Tesla's industrial patent hold if it had no practical value? Milehigh's inference is that; The single wrap is equally efficient as an electromagnet with twice the power input, to equal the bifilars, and not that, "The bifilar yields twice the magnetic force per watt".  Ampere's law does not explain properties described by the Lorentz effect. The increased magnetic field is caused by electrons passing one another at near light speed velocity in the opposing wires. You need to catch up with the times Milehigh.

                 I find it ludicrous that Milehigh continues to debunk Tesla's cornerstone achievement as a so called "Psuedo" bifilar. Place those words in the Google search engine and see if anything comes up. We don't need any crypto word smithing from someone who's trying to hide his ignorance about a century old invention in such broad use.

                 Does anyone believe that the bifilar would somehow mysteriously consume twice the power if shorted accross a "D" cell battery, then the single wrap coil of equal wire length? How could that be possible? No one's stupid enough to believe that. Try the simple electromagnet experiment with two fresh batteries of equal charge, and compare the remaining voltage after a few minutes of paper clip attraction on each kind of coil. Believe me when I tell you that you've never been more wrong about anything Milehigh! Please stop ridiculing Nicola Tesla, and confusing people with your concieted sophistry.