Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[MileHigh]

Farmhand:

I think that you are in the right ballpark for some points, but I disagree with your comments about energy stored in the coils as being part of the explanation.  I suspect that you might be right on track with respect to the extra load or drag on the rotor when there is no load on the pick-up coils.  That creates cogging from the attraction between the rotor magnets and pick-up coil cores.  You assume the cogging creates radial stress on the bearings, and some bearings can cope with radial stress better than others.  I am making an assumption that when the pick-up coils are driving loads, that the cogging is reduced.  That's a big assumption that would have to somehow be verified.

Certainly there is no over 100% percent efficiency.  To describe the setup in somewhat abstract terms you can say the battery sees the entire motor setup as an electrical load with an average impedance.  The average impedance determines the power draw from the battery.

If you change the impedance by changing the motor configuration the power consumption will go up or down.  The impedance is a complex electro-mechanical impedance that is dependent on several factors, the speed of the rotor, the inductance values, where your losses are, air friction, bearing friction, etc.

It's also possible that you can change the motor configuration and the impedance will only be marginally affected from the point of view of the battery.  However, where that power goes internally relative to the motor itself may change.  One possibility is that less power will be dissipated in the bearings, and that allows more power to go to turn the rotor.  Hence the rotor speeds up but the motor power consumption does not change.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Farmhand:

I did the coil energy calculations because Synchro1 believes that a pseudo-bifilar coil gives you great advantages in pulse motor applications.  There is also the diagram he posted with the bullet points.  The distinguishing factor in a pseudo-bifilar coil as compared to a regular coil is the capability to store more capacitative energy.  So when you look at pulse motor applications you can see that typically the capacitative energy is far too small to have any affect on the operation of the pulse motor.

What I claim as my invention is
1 A coil for electric apparatus the adjacent convolutions of which form parts of the circuit between which there exists a potential difference sufficient to secure in the coil a capacity capable of neutralizing its self induction as hereinbefore described.

2 A coil composed of contiguous or adjacent insulated conductors electrically connected in series and having a potential difference of such value as to give to the coil as a whole a capacity sufficient to neutralize its self induction as set forth.

NIKOLA TESLA Witnesses ROBT F GAYLORD PARKER W PAGE

You:

What I see is the effect of the increased capacitance on the resonant frequency as the main benefit of the way the "COIL FOR ELECTRO MAGNETS" is wound.
I think it's easy to see the inductance stores more energy than the capacitance but Tesla does not state that it does that.

Tesla is basically describing how a coil or a pseudo-bifilar coil can act like an LC resonator using 19th century English.  "capacity capable of neutralizing its self induction" just means that when the capacitative voltage is at its peak, the current in the coil is zero.

For some reason I always imagine Tesla with a 10-foot-high coil.  You can imagine putting DC current in at the top of the coil.  When you throw the knife switch as fast as you possibly can to disconnect the power source, the two terminals would start to undergo violent arcing.  By the time the switch contacts are a few inches apart the arcing would stop.  Then the coil would self-resonate with voltage peaks of perhaps a few hundred thousand volts.  It would be a dangerous and mean resonating machine for several seconds or perhaps tens of seconds.  If the frequency is high enough, I presume it would radiate some of its stored energy out into space as EM waves.

What was Tesla's intended use for this pseudo-bifilar coil setup?  From my recollection in reading the patent he does not say.  He describes the fact that it will resonate.  Are there other writings that discuss applications?  I don't think they were intended to be used as small pick-up coils and driver coils in pulse motors or solenoids, etc.  It's possible that this was more like "pure research" by Tesla but I am only guessing.

MileHigh

[Farmhand]

Yes there could be many factors playing a role. But the important things are it is very inefficient to do, and the energy transferred is relative to the Lenz drag.
I agree with you about what the supply see's. And the supply is what the word describes, it supplies all the energy for the setup.

I think Thane likes to just leave the driving motor or the "prime mover" energy consumption out of it. Which is just silly, in my opinion.

It's not OU until it outputs more energy as useful loads than is input by the operator (us).

Why do they say it is ? That's what I don't understand.

Cheers

P.S. MileHigh I do see your point about the stored energy, But rather than being stored and resonant as in when there is no load isn't it transferred more directly with no Q ? Kinda like by transformer action.

...

[MileHigh]

Synchro1:

I tried for 15 minutes on Google to find any references to bifilar coils used in electromagnets and could not find any.  I found lots of companies that make big electromagnets, companies that sell scrap yard cranes with electromagnets, etc.  I found out that they also sell giant magnets to do the same thing.  in this case the coil will briefly neutralize the magnetic field to drop the scrap metal.  That sounds like a more efficient way to do it.  I asked you for references before about the scrapyard elecromagnets being "bifilar" or "pseudo-bifilar" but you did not reply.

Here is the fundamental issue for you to consider:  Why would a pseudo-bifilar pancake coil make a better electromagnet as compared to a regular pancake coil?  I can't think of a logical reason for that to be true.  When I visualize the effects of regular vs. pseudo-bifilar in my mind I don't see any differences in the field generation.

I also have presented evidence to back up my claims and made a reference or two.

Here is a great link that I found:  "Factors affecting inductance."

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_15/3.html

MileHigh

[Farmhand]

Milehigh, No prob's, I see now why you made the calculations. Very informative as well.

As far as a use for the coil, I think he states that from lines 26 to 31 of page 1 of the patent. 

At the time probably useful in ways we don't immediately think of. Maybe not practical any more because of the supply of good cheap capacitors.

One use I can see for it would be to lower the resonant frequency of a Pulsed electromagnet or something without an external capacitor.

Cheers