Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[synchro1]

I'm back from CR. I'm setting my  Quadfilar Spiral bedini up on my sailboat right now. I have a 1 farad digital capacitor to try and  run in self loop.

I also have a "Glow Light" trasformer that generates a 1khz a.c. signal from a 12 volt d.c. battery. I plan to run the neo sphere up to 60,000 r.p.m. on one side of the Q-spiral with the bedini, then switch over to the 1khz a.c. sine wave on the other, and compare input if the neo sphere continues to spin.

[MileHigh]

Farmhand:

Your clip showed the effect quite nicely.  The impedance of the motor goes up when you are driving the rotor, within certain limits. If I can ask you a favour for future clips, it would be to make sure the schematic is the latest revision (Did you move the diode?) and also show where the current sensing resistors are on the schematic.  It really helps.

If you were a mad scientist like Russ you could put a pulse motor on a "suicide run."  If you had a variable high voltage DC supply you could crank up the voltage on the drive coil and push the motor faster and faster.  You should start to see diminishing returns on the number of RPMs per watts in.  Higher and higher, what will fail first?  Will the coil burn up?  Will the bearings fail?  Will something fly off the rotor at high speed?  Will the transistor explode?  If there is a charging battery, will it start to boil?  Like some mad scientist you push your poor humble pulse motor past the breaking point!  Muhahaha  Now that would be fun.

Perhaps the Suicide Pulse Motor Building contest?

Thanks,

MileHigh

[Farmhand]

For that clip I did just add the one diode before C2. After the clip I thought for interest I would try to run the setup up and see what kind of speed I could get by timing the pulse to the  charging coil so that the main motor coil is passed and the pulse happens over he charging coil, I didn't have the scope attached but what happened was I over volted some diodes only rated to 40 volts. Originally I was going to use all 40 volt parts and use a charge battery then the voltage is below 40v with 12 volts input, but I went with IRF740 mosfets while I waited for IRF1010's. But now the drains are seeing up to 80 volts and switching 60v at times. Anyway I replaced all the diodes on the board with higher rated ones.

I applied full boost (35 volts) with the timing retarded trying to speed it up then screeech from the diode and the input went to 5 amps on the 5 amp meter.

I have a feeling these diodes were kinda failing for a while.

I'll update the circuit drawing to show the changes I made with the diodes. I'm going to remove the rest of the 1N5822 diodes before I kill more, I'll replace them with FR302 (100v), FR307(1000v) or 1N5408 (1000v).

If I apply 35 volts boosted input then the mosfets would be switching 60 volts plus through MC1 from C2. No wonder the 40 volt rated diodes failed.  I overlooked them. But all is well that ends well. 

When it comes to load switching from a generator coil the fun will start. If there is a magnetization delay so that the rotor magnet is away from the core when the coil is affected by the flux then we would have a constant current generator wouldn't we. If loading the generator coil out of phase to the rotor magnet passing then the drag and output should be set at or about cogging drag shouldn't it maybe a bit more. But the output would be limited of course.

Cheers

P.S. Here's a tip, if C3 is too small in certain conditions the voltage in it can get too high, I've gone to three 6.8 uF caps in parallel and a 10 uH coil on a small toroid for the return arrangement.

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[Farmhand]

OK I used a sniffer coil just to see what kind of wave form the rotor makes on a generator coil. This is the result below. The motor dropped from 2400 rpm and held at 2340 rpm with 12.6 volts and 220 mA input when the coil was placed near the rotor, no problem. The coil measured only 69.5 mH (mock up core), so I can see that if I make a gen coil with a few hundred mH I should get a pretty good sine wave. The positive end of the coil was facing the rotor with the probe to the positive end and the scope ground to the negative end, the coupling was set to AC on the scope. SO we can see that the north pole of the magnets induce a negative voltage in the coil then the coil swings positive about the same amount before then drops to zero volts for a period before the next magnet approaches, I can see there seems to be two bumps on the top of the waveform, so I'm surmising that my rotor has two weak south poles close together and three north poles one strong and two weaker to each side of it.  I can change the angle of the out-rigger magnets so that they make two slightly stronger south poles a bit further apart and one even stronger north pole I think (on each side of the rotor). I'll try that by pointing the north pole of the out magnets more at the center of the two main magnets, then the south poles will be facing slightly out toward the rotors periphery.  I think the motor will run even better then and the gen waveform will also be better I think.

Cheers

P.S.  HopToad was correct. Of course all of the above confirms that the rotor can induce a current as he described in a previous post because there is south poles on the rotor.
But that can only happen with the motor coils if the emf produced that way is more than or out of phase with the emf generated by the collapsing magnetic field and I doubt very much that the rotors south poles can induce over 20 volts not to mention 25 volts so there is no room for induction from the magnets unless they can generate a higher emf then the collapsing magnetic field or it induces the emf at a different time. In my opinion it is the same a a generator coil that generated 30 volts peak to peak connected to a capacitor charged to 40 volts via a FWBR, there is no current induced.

That is one of the advantages to an orderly collapse of the magnetic field at a higher voltage, it stops the induction from the phantom south pole (in the motor coils), or at least that is the objective.. THe south pole can generate all it wants to in the generator coil.

2nd P.S  I think the way my rotor spins down very slowly when the power is cut is an indicator that no significant induction of currents is happening from the rotor to the motor coils when there is a voltage present in all the capacitors.

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[Farmhand]

(snip)
Also, the rotor magnet/s is/are counter inducing a current in one direction through the motor MC1, via D2 D5 L1 and D4. In the circuit you've shown on the previous page, you can pull Q1 out of the circuit, and spin the rotor up to speed by another means, and you will get current through MC1 via the path I just outlined.

I notice also in the same circuit that any collapsing emf from MC1, during off time (from the supply) discharges through the same path.

http://www.overunity.com/11350/confirming-the-delayed-lenz-effect/dlattach/attach/123297/image//

Cheers

Thanks Hoptoad,  Tonight's experiments will be dedicated to investigating these effects (I hope). I kept what you said in mind and it appears to be correct. 

I think I understand better now the full implications of what you said. My apologies. I see taking D4 out increases rotor speed and input power for the pulse width, which is good for me. I must investigate further.

I've rearranged the circuit a bit for testing (as below) while keeping the component labels much the same except for additions ect. I changed all diodes to 1N5408 except the free wheeling diode D3 which needs to have less drop than the mosfet's internal diode, the flyback diode is also a fast recovery diode just for fun.

I intend to run the circuit as shown up to speed with a 2.8 mS pulse width and the pulse timed to energize the motor coil when the magnet is directly in line with the MC1 core as a benchmark and the pulse timing and the pulse width will remain constant throughout the tests.

Then I will systematically short the diodes (D4), (D5), (D6) and even (D2) one by one with a clip lead (directly across the diode, observe the wave forms and rpm for changes and record what happens then un-short them. After doing that one by one I'll test combinations (with two clip leads  ), like shorting both D4 and D6. I'll also try connecting C3 in series with the battery and record the difference with that. A few hours experimenting there. 

I want as much speed/torque as possible for a fixed pulse width. But I want to keep the drain voltage below 80 volts, that way I can use IRF540 mosfets, so I have NE2 neons for a visual indicator as well.

Anyone have any suggestions to modify the magnet layout as I showed in the other sketch ? This drawing doesn't show the actual magnet layout.

Cheers

Milehigh, the currents were measured across the C.S.R.'s -  R1 and R2 in the last clip, the center of the two resistors is the cap C2, and the scope grounds are connected there.
Basically it measures the current out of C2 and into the motor coil MC1, and the current out of the the charging coil MC2 into the capacitor C2. I did explain that in the video, but I agree a drawing is best practice. If the inverted current waveform was un-inverted and the wave forms superimposed, then the area where the current wave forms overlap would be "shoot through current". 

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