Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[DeepCut]

Hi Thane,

HV coils, each is a half-pound of 0.25mm.

L = 20+ Henries (my LCR meter only goes to 20 for inductance).
R = ~400 ohms

They are bifilar-wound, series-connected, wired in series together.

So if a coil has a South pole and a North pole cutting it at the same time then that's not a bad thing ?


Cheers,

Gary.

[Kator01]

Hello everyone,

I tried to replicate Luc`s setup however I measured the real-power with this famous german Hartmann & Braun Instrument ( 1980)

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hartmann_wattavi.html

It is a pure Power-Meter which cannot be fooled because the current to be measured is used to magnetize a closed iron-core in the center of which a electrodynamic meter-coil ( galvanometer-coil)  is turning the needle. A small current resulting from the voltage is fed into this sensitive coil.
Now current and voltage determine the real power monitored in this Instrument in a direct way - no interpretation , no calculation by pic-programms.
In all configurations I tested ( I have a torióid-transformer with two identical secondaries specified for 50 V each )
there was always real-power flowing from the grid into the system. Average efficiency was about 75 to 80 %.
Wattage was in the range from 5 to 10 Watt into a 1 Ohm-Power-Resistor. Average efficiency was about 75 to 80 %. Phaseshift was monitored across a 0,27 Ohm Power-resistor and strange enough my scope definitely showed a 90 degree phase-shift in an configurations. This result was veryfied at the same time with a standard mechanical power-meter - Ferraris-meter - we use here in germany as the main grid-meter
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/wiki/Stromzähler
The minute phaseshift-difference ( maybe 2 to 5 degrees) simply escapes these digital meters and I have to confess that I first was confused by my scope-readings until I realized that these Digi-meters can not be used in these measurements and visually I was not able to detect the small difference on my scope.
The wattavi K however can not be fooled.
Sorry folks this setup does not work.
Regards

Kator01

[Kator01]

Hi

here on this webside ( old measurement-techique ) in figure 2 (Abb.2 ) you can see how this closed iron-meter-ring of the watavi k was construced by the
hartmann & braun engineers way back in 1980

http://www.alte-messtechnik.de/technik/elektrodynamisch.php

on the right side you can see the feed-in-terminals for the current.


@cranky : I placed the probe directly to the primary coil and the phasesshift of 90 degrees was gone. Voltage and current was fully in-phase.

The different cap-values I used ( 15 to 70 mykoFarad) simply changed the input voltage-level- and by this of course the current.

Regards

Kator01

[CRANKYpants]

Hi Thane,

They are bifilar-wound, series-connected, wired in series together.

Cheers,
Gary.

DEAR GARY,

WHY DID YOU CONNECT THEM TOGETHER IN SERIES?
TRY SHORTING EACH OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

CHEERS
T

[gotoluc]

Hello everyone,

I tried to replicate Luc`s setup however I measured the real-power with this famous german Hartmann & Braun Instrument ( 1980)

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hartmann_wattavi.html

It is a pure Power-Meter which cannot be fooled because the current to be measured is used to magnetize a closed iron-core in the center of which a electrodynamic meter-coil ( galvanometer-coil)  is turning the needle. A small current resulting from the voltage is fed into this sensitive coil.
Now current and voltage determine the real power monitored in this Instrument in a direct way - no interpretation , no calculation by pic-programms.
In all configurations I tested ( I have a torióid-transformer with two identical secondaries specified for 50 V each )
there was always real-power flowing from the grid into the system. Average efficiency was about 75 to 80 %.
Wattage was in the range from 5 to 10 Watt into a 1 Ohm-Power-Resistor. Average efficiency was about 75 to 80 %. Phaseshift was monitored across a 0,27 Ohm Power-resistor and strange enough my scope definitely showed a 90 degree phase-shift in an configurations. This result was veryfied at the same time with a standard mechanical power-meter - Ferraris-meter - we use here in germany as the main grid-meter
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/wiki/Stromzähler
The minute phaseshift-difference ( maybe 2 to 5 degrees) simply escapes these digital meters and I have to confess that I first was confused by my scope-readings until I realized that these Digi-meters can not be used in these measurements and visually I was not able to detect the small difference on my scope.
The wattavi K however can not be fooled.
Sorry folks this setup does not work.
Regards

Kator01

Thanks Kator01 for taking the time to do this test and confirm what I thought.

I wrote in a prior post that I don't think a reactive circuit would have any benefit operating on its own. It would probably need a finely tuned receiving/re-injecting timing circuit to deal with the returned reactive current which is not built in the quality meter you used. So the results don't surprise me at all.
However, I do believe this circuit is sending some current back and that's what's affecting my cheap Watts meter. Probably the meters internal measuring capacitor is being re-charged when the circuits capacitance is tuned or balanced to the Meter.

Thanks again for your tests

Luc