Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,

When you started the MOT transformer tests with a neon bulb load across the secondary and no capacitor across the primary, you wrote the transformer primary inductance was about 68mH.
Then you started using parallel caps across the primary and gradually came down from the 4-5kHz no cap test to 2.45kHz (C=0.39uF), then to 578Hz (C=6.8uF), then to 250Hz (C=37.4uF) and now to 115Hz (C=165uF).

By checking these data pairs with the resonance formula the primary inductance of the trafo used for these tests comes out as 10.8 to 11.6mH range, this is rather far from the 68-76mH you seem to be aware of you have primaries.

The tuning cap for 60Hz in case of the 68mH primary coil should be around 103.5uF and in case of a 76mH primary coil it would be around 92.6uF.

IF you have got a 11mH primary only (taking this average value from my above calculations), then the needed tuning cap for 60Hz would be around 639.6uF, a huge value indeed. 
So a primary inductance check is in order?

One more thing: why do not you use your 7.5H ferrite core coils for these tests? (just to save you from winding transformer...)

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

thanks for looking over my test data.

I bought my Inductance meter over 2 years ago on eBay from China. I was cheap $18. (delivered). The selector dial doesn't always have a consistent contact so the readings vary a little. I rechecked it many times and it does seem to be in the 75mH range and I'm quite positive it would not be as low as 10mH range.

Looks like we have something going on in the MOT that a normal LCR Calculator is not able to accurately calculate. My Total Capacitance is 213uF and I can only get down to 100Hz.
It blew me away when I added a 60uF Cap and it only dropped by 15Hz.

My data is accurate enough that there cannot be such a difference. Maybe one day we will understand why this is

When I said I would have to wind a transformer I meant using the Ferrite Toroid with the 7.5H coil already on it. I guess I'll just wind the Primary over top of the 7.5H coil.
The bonus with a Ferrite would be that it would be more Efficient at higher Frequencies then the Steel Laminations of a MOT.

Please let me know what you think of this.

Thanks for your time

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc, I still don't see why you would run your MOT at 50/60Hz. I say this because: the thing which is really important to get a proper Lenz Delay, is a very high impedance coil in combination with a higher frequency. So in your case, I don't see a problem in your low inductance primary coil at all. It is the secondary coil on your MOT which is important. Please see my video about: How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz effect. On my Youtube Channel. Than I think you will understand what I mean...

But for now, I don't want to discourage you.

So please keep up the good work, and with Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Hi Overunityguide,

correct me if I'm wrong but if you had a low 76mH Primary MOT you would not see this possible Lenz Delay Effect by using your low 950Hz Frequency limit since you could not see the effect until you reached 4,800Hz. So how can you say you don't see a problem?

You should also know that a Steel Lamination Transformer do not operate efficiently at such high Frequencies.  So again, how could you say you don't see a problem?

The reason I would like to get this effect using 60Hz Grid Power is I would be able to observe the effect of increased voltage delivered to the Primary and how it effect the Transformer.

Don't you think eliminating your power hog Frequency Controller and connecting to Grid with clean Sine Waves on your Scope would make a more convincing presentation?

Maybe it's just me but I'm not convinced yet of this effect with the information presented. How does everyone else feel?

Yes, I already seen your video "How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz effect"

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[Magluvin]

It makes sense to want it to operate at 60hz, or 50hz.  ;]

I the case of redesigning a new transformer with additional circuitry, just add a cap to the primary of an existing transformer in the MW. 

So I guess we will find out if it just uses less input to run a MW, or if we have to tone it down a bit due to too much output.

You have been around a while Luc. Your doin the right thing(s).  ;]


Mags

[Overunityguide]

Hi Overunityguide,

correct me if I'm wrong but if you had a low 76mH Primary MOT you would not see this possible Lenz Delay Effect by using your low 950Hz Frequency limit since you could not see the effect until you reached 4,800Hz. So how can you say you don't see a problem?

Hello Luc,

Why do you keep going on about your inductance value at your primary coil? In my opinion this value really don't matters. So saying that you need at last 4800 Hz based on your primary inductance value doesn't make sense to me at all. What is your secondary inductance value? Because this is the value what you need to do your calculations on... The primary coil is on case of the MOT only a secondary exciter... 

And of course I agree with you that less components would be better, read eliminating my frequency drive controller. But personally I don't think that the delay is big enough at the low grid frequencies... Because otherwise each microwave oven company should be power factor correcting there primary coils of their MOT transformers..

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

[Overunityguide]

DEAR OUG, PLEASE FILL IN THE ?'s

THANKS
Thane

Hello Thane,

By now I unfortunately can't answer your questions, because I am on a business trip right now, so I can only do some remote commenting on my mobile device... I will get back on this next saturday.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide