Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect

[Farmhand]

But we are neglecting the capacitive differences in the coils. We concentrate on the resistance, the current flow. We are neglecting what happens 'initially' within the 2 coils when the input is connected. 

I would agree that if we measured the current with a meter it would be the same once the field is max. But nobody is looking at what really happens in the beginning. It would be easy to not even notice a peak input current with a meter. A scope would be needed.

If there is an initial high burst of mag field, the nail could be magnetized more even possibly permanently somewhat than if done slowly and without spikes or peaks that would not happen in an inductor of a single wire winding.


Mags

But then we are talking of a pulsed input. And any oscillation will demagnetize the core after the spike
and reverse the magnetic polarity because of a reversal in current..


P.S

Also if the inductance is the same or more then the rate of rise of the current will be the same or less.

Some kind of very slight effects might be seen and if they are useful to you then good, go ahead and use it.

But to me the actual purpose of the patent is to lower the resonant frequency of a coil with a given length of wire
without the need of external capacitors or a loss or magnetic field strength.

When we use the coil at resonance frequency we will see the biggest advantage, as well as with higher voltages the advantages are more "apparent". apparently. 

Using a frequency means pulsing or AC excitation.

Is there any purposes for AC electromagnets ?

.

..

[Magluvin]

But then we are talking of a pulsed input. And any oscillation will demagnetize the core after the spike
and reverse the magnetic polarity because of a reversal in current..

..

Maybe. It will have to be looked at, not just make assumptions yet.     

Mags

[Farmhand]

Maybe. It will have to be looked at, not just make assumptions yet.     

Mags

Yes I agree, have a look is the best way. I'll try to wind the coils today so I can test tonight.

I want a fair bit of inductance so the frequency for the single winding coil is within my 3.3 mHz Function Generator limit, no prob's.

This is a very informative discussion, even though it's completely off topic and in the wrong place to be seen by people trying to research
these coils for previous experiments. All this info is kinda hidden. What a shame, maybe the Moderators could move the posts about the "COIL FOR ELECTROMAGNETS" to
a better place if it's considered a good idea.

Cheers

I guess using toroidal cores is out of the question. 

..

[Magluvin]

Yes I agree, have a look is the best way. I'll try to wind the coils today so I can test tonight.

I want a fair bit of inductance so the frequency for the single winding coil is within my 3.3 mHz Function Generator limit, no prob's.

This is a very informative discussion, even though it's completely off topic and in the wrong place to be seen by people trying to research
these coils for previous experiments. All this info is kinda hidden. What a shame, maybe the Moderators could move the posts about the "COIL FOR ELECTROMAGNETS" to
a better place if it's considered a good idea.

Cheers

Maybe your right. This is what was being discussed when I rejoined in recently.

Mags

[Magluvin]

We talked about the capacitance neutralizing the self inductance the other day.
If we have a coil with a cap across it, and then we just apply a dc source across it, the cap will charge virtually instantly, but the inductor wont. This might imitate a neutralizing of self inductance of the coil, where the current flows easily through the cap. We are talking about applying DC here.

If the capacitance is 'in' the coil, well that current that charges that capacitance goes 'through the coil' neutralizing the self inductance. And if it neutralizes self inductance, then maybe we could think, does that mean that the magnetic field is neutralized also, or just the effect of impedance is neutralized and outer magnetic field is unaffected. If so then initially there could be a very intense field pulse, as compared to a slowly building standard inductive field build, depending in the inductance.

That internal capacitance is charged through a coil that can make an external field like any other coil and the impedance is neutralized. So until this capacitance is charged, this coil might be acting like a super electromagnet. Sounds like a heck of an idea to patent.

If we consider the cap connected to a coil, there probably isnt any purpose for it in the DC world. But here the capacitance is in the coil, and in my opinion, there should be a difference.

Also I stated earlier about the ability of holding power over time. Well if the field is huge in the beginning through the object being held, this may give us that stronger hold over time, instantly instead.

So you can see why I am emphatic about not testing them in series. It is not conclusive in any way. It does not show if one coil could pull more current than the other with the same voltage input. Its not correct in any way. The only thing that does is possibly show that the 2 coils can pick up the same amount of clips. But the singlefi coil in series wont allow the capacitance of the bifi to charge as it would connected to the supply alone, thus no initial magnetic pulse from the bifi.

Will see soon.     Im going more is better.


Mags