Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells

[PhiChaser]

BigJ: It's called Durham's watter putty. You find it where they keep the wood putty/filler at hardware stores. It is a dry powder that is mostly gypsum, comes in a 'can'... My inital readings on that cell were over 2 volts!
Only charged that cell for about three hours... Yep, training the cells, exactly. I know we have mentioned this before somewhere. I tried it with the salt sub to see what it would do and got chlorine gas LOL (ok, not so funny).

Okay, this morning I got up and the cell I left on the meter overnight is reading 1.57 volts! Yeah baby!
Gonna go unhook that one and try out the one I left charging overnight.
This second 'trained' cell has been hooked up in series to two 6 volt lantern batteries six hours anyways...
Let's see if it does as well or better or worse. The cell was more dry than the first when I hooked it up but not by much... Hold on a sec:
Ugh... Well, not what I expected. 
At first I thought I had a dead cell (0.04v) but it is coming up SLOW...I will let it rest a few and try to measure again in a bit... I hooked a third cell up to the 6v batteries, this time in parallel. Something to consider that I didn't mention because it didn't seem terribly important at the time: I originally hooked up the first cell in parallel for a while (which was delivering 5.5 volts through the cell...) BEFORE switching it to series connected . Perhaps that is what gave me the results?? What I really need to try is hooking the batteries to the 'trodes BEFORE they go into the electrolyte. I'm thinking it helps polarize the water/crystals?
WTH?? Now I get voltage readings (not great, but going up still) on the cell I left overnight. I pegged the 0-100uA meter so now it is on the 0-500uA meter and has been RISING from about 95uA to.. looks like it is at 125uA now and holding steady... 0.44volts, slowly rising... Hmmm... More coffee...

Too much to figure out in the morning...
I will try to make more sense later tonight, I've gotta get ready to go play in the rain... I wonder how many of my mediocre cells can be 'trained'? Science is fun!!

PC

[Peanutbutter29]

@ triffid , the Alum most people are using currently is Potassium Alum already.   The only caustic aspect of these salts is their affinity for water.  I suppose the Cesium Alum was listed as a minor irritant though.

Ty for letting me know about the intent of preventing hydrolysis;  that is easily accomplished.   As I stated, I wondered if one of the two is required (eg need h and o)

Lastly to PhiChaser.... It seems you are using one of the elements I just asked about;  Calcium Sulfate is Gypsum (partial anhydrous) and plaster of paris (.5H20).  Darn, so that means there may be something to the anhydrous AND hydrolysis prevention as well.......unless the Gypsum here is just preventing Hydrolysis of the active components.

just rambling, hopefully I should be getting parts soon.  I'll of course try some standards first, as has been suggested.
Thanks
PB

Edited for better wording and noticed Salts used were not anhydrous


*BTW note:  if water of crystallization is removed from Epsom or Alum they can no longer be considered a crystal right?

[jbignes5]

@ triffid , the Alum most people are using currently is Potassium Alum already.   The only caustic aspect of these salts is their affinity for water.  I suppose the Cesium Alum was listed as a minor irritant though.

Ty for letting me know about the intent of preventing hydrolysis;  that is easily accomplished.   As I stated, I wondered if one of the two is required (eg need h and o)

Lastly to PhiChaser.... It seems you are using one of the elements I just asked about;  Calcium Sulfate is Gypsum (partial anhydrous) and plaster of paris (.5H20).  Darn, so that means there may be something to the anhydrous AND hydrolysis prevention as well.......unless the Gypsum here is just preventing Hydrolysis of the active components.

just rambling, hopefully I should be getting parts soon.  I'll of course try some standards first, as has been suggested.
Thanks
PB

Edited for better wording and noticed Salts used were not anhydrous


*BTW note:  if water of crystallization is removed from Epsom or Alum they can no longer be considered a crystal right?

Well an interesting thought right? Excellent question. Well if the water of crystallization gets removed then what is left? Oxygen and crystal structure. <more akin to diamond for the water content. I am starting to think that water isn't even used in this process once the structure is up and running. Although to get good current we must be able to use the trapped hydrogen inside of the structure to attract oxygen for the porcess to work correctly. It also dawned on me that during the creation of the crystalline structure that oxygen and hydrogen are separated somehow.


I was watching a kewl underwater special about life in the bottom of the oceans and how they emit light of their own. How could this be done and how could life live so far away from free oxygen in the water. Well what if it is only a crude battery like setup in the body of that life form. This would allow the extraction of free oxygen and provide excess energy to cause the lights in their bodies. They turn on and off light like regular diodes. Hmmmm

There must be some kind of biological converter of water in their bodies to create the voltage and then we all know about organic leds right?

I was reading a normal educational link that might help some.

" Electrons (or hydrogen atoms) function as energy carriers. An atom or molecule that is reduced (gains electrons or hydrogen atoms) also gains energy as a result of the oxidation. Similarly, oxidation is associated with the loss of energy.

Reactions in which one atom or compound is reduced and another is oxidized are called redox reactions."

So this kinda revolves around the idea that the hydrogen in the crystals are indeed the bridge or physical through way for the oxygen to flow around it imparting a mobile static charge through the aligned and focused tips of the crystals. There would have to be very complex structure to this involving alternating layers of hydrogen and oxygen in the structure itself.

This page has some very interesting stuff on it explaining things like ionic bonds and the structure of the water and how it polarizes or crystallizes.
http://faculty.clintoncc.suny.edu/faculty/michael.gregory/files/bio%20101/bio%20101%20lectures/chemistry/chemistr.htm

"Water is a polar molecule because the oxygen atom is much more electronegative than the hydrogen atoms, resulting in unequal sharing of electrons. As a result, it forms hydrogen bonds with ****other polar or charged particles****."

What this means if something other then water bonds to that unequal hydrogen space then you get bulk water but if water polarizes or settles into hydrogen bonding via material charge forming a network of water polar pairs around that material. Crystals form from smaller matter settling into the spaces between the network. It fills up like sand in a old hour glass. Once the structure forms it dries out and that could be called setting up or growth of the structure. In the process of drying up the oxygen is pushed out and the hydrogen gets trapped into the structure. The oxygen does not go far though and is in a layer outside of the inner crystal. Material then dries very quickly in the second layer and the process continues.

[triffid]

I have another plastic egg carton to use.forgot to check for holes so I'm sealing those up with glue.I had two.Once the glue dries a little.then I will make six more cells.With black copper oxide.And buttermilk and vineagar.I may add the vineagar to the buttermilk,stir then add it to the cells.that way I can dilute it a little but still have it.






Congratulations PC sounds like you may have a breakthrough.triffid

[triffid]

Im thinking about putting iron copper plated nails pointed north in my batch of cells today.see if that does anything.triffid