electrolysys with horizontal plates

[c0mster]

This may or may not help. I did an experiment where I was charging and discharging a capacitor through 2 rods in salt water. What I noticed is that when the cap was charged a pulse of bubbles appeared on one rod and the same when the cap discharged. I was using a SPDT switch and some diodes to keep the flow one way through the water to swap the electrons from a 24 volt source into the cap and then out to a 9 volt destination. I measured amps as the cap charged going through the water and I measured amps charging the 9volt battery. Of course in this setup there are losses due to resistance but I was really moving the energy from the 24 volt battery set up to the 9volt battery that was dead. The rechargeable battery became charged after a time. The one thing I found interesting was the fact that the pulses could be seen on the rod like a shock wave. Perhaps to minimize heating and to help dislodge the bubbles in a hurry this set up might be of some help. As well perhaps moving the elctrons from source to destination may increase efficiency. One other note: 2 rods seem to produce more action than a Stanley cell made of 316 SS.

CamsterÃ,  Ã,  Ã,  

[joule]

This may or may not help. I did an experiment where I was charging and discharging a capacitor through 2 rods in salt water. What I noticed is that when the cap was charged a pulse of bubbles appeared on one rod and the same when the cap discharged. I was using a SPDT switch and some diodes to keep the flow one way through the water to swap the electrons from a 24 volt source into the cap and then out to a 9 volt destination. I measured amps as the cap charged going through the water and I measured amps charging the 9volt battery. Of course in this setup there are losses due to resistance but I was really moving the energy from the 24 volt battery set up to the 9volt battery that was dead. The rechargeable battery became charged after a time. The one thing I found interesting was the fact that the pulses could be seen on the rod like a shock wave. Perhaps to minimize heating and to help dislodge the bubbles in a hurry this set up might be of some help. As well perhaps moving the elctrons from source to destination may increase efficiency. One other note: 2 rods seem to produce more action than a Stanley cell made of 316 SS.

Camster

Check out www.stifflerscientific.com and look at the CRE, there is also a video on what you describe.

[Walter Hofmann]

Walter:

A couple of lines on what I found during cell research.

1) Measurement of gas is difficult at best. The filling the tube (bottle) method is very inaccurate. Unless you have run the gas through a dryer, you will have significant water vapor. As a cell heats the kinetic energy of the H2O molecules increases and larger amounts of vapor will be present. Using electrolyte will also present some margin of error as some chemical reaction can take place and generate gas other than H2 and O2, albiet small.

2) I found that you want to keep the interaction of the cell ions to a minimum, you don't want then to re-combine and bump into one another as the Enthalpy increases. I was never able in hundreds of hours to get horizontal to produce near vertical.

3) Electrodes that are to close are self defeating, they cause re-combination and heat from the massive number of molecule interactions.

4) Get the gas out of the electrolyte as soon as possible, holding it back by the plastic may allow them to join up and seem like large bubbles, but gas has not increased.

I at last used for production measurement (mass) as an indicator. Weigh starting cell, run gas through dryer, captue and weigh. By subtraction you can get within 10-20%. This will require a scale capable of doing entire cell as removal of the left over water will great a greater error as you can't get it all. To weigh gas will require better scale. I do not suggest you capture a large amount of gas, that is just plain bad for oxyhydrogen.

My work found that this drive to add more plates and more plates is not the way to go. If you are using conventional theory, you are only interested in A/cm2. It seems to a lot of people to get to this point that plates en-mass is the way to go. Electrolyte is part of the answer, yet a cell can be constructed to provide good output and not require large number of plates.

Voltage is critical unless you just don't care about eff%, the thermoneutral voltage is below 1.5V and for 80% eff you will run around 560-580ma/cm2 at around 2.4V.

Keep up the work, it can only get better...

Hi joule,
thanks for the commend, I personally be a hands on guy and over the years I experienced that there allways are many different ways to do things and different points of view. My goal is just bring my generators to work.
From the imense literature , videos what I have consumed I learned that everybody swor that his system is the maximum and after replicate a few It was not what was promissed. The start up to my aproach with the horizontal version was actually exidental as the plates with the heavy wire connection tipt over in the horizontal and what I never have seen before a pretty much explosion of bubbles over the whole surface.The wire mesh was allready what I have experiemented coming from my AGC cell development.
Now what I also found out is that the ebst form stacked cells in horizontal are with disc shaped plates and the stack should be between 1 1/2 to 2 inches distance and with maximale 4 of this which should also be about a 1/2 inch smaler then the previous. More then 4 dont give more.
I hope over the weekend I can start experiementing if I can get my IC engine running, this will proof if and how many cell stacks is needed. like I say I am a hands on guy and proof to me is only if i can get to my goal.
I agree with you that adding more plates are at least for me and I did lots of experiements not the way to go.
greetings
walt

[Walter Hofmann]

This may or may not help. I did an experiment where I was charging and discharging a capacitor through 2 rods in salt water. What I noticed is that when the cap was charged a pulse of bubbles appeared on one rod and the same when the cap discharged. I was using a SPDT switch and some diodes to keep the flow one way through the water to swap the electrons from a 24 volt source into the cap and then out to a 9 volt destination. I measured amps as the cap charged going through the water and I measured amps charging the 9volt battery. Of course in this setup there are losses due to resistance but I was really moving the energy from the 24 volt battery set up to the 9volt battery that was dead. The rechargeable battery became charged after a time. The one thing I found interesting was the fact that the pulses could be seen on the rod like a shock wave. Perhaps to minimize heating and to help dislodge the bubbles in a hurry this set up might be of some help. As well perhaps moving the elctrons from source to destination may increase efficiency. One other note: 2 rods seem to produce more action than a Stanley cell made of 316 SS.

Camster      

Hi camster,
Yes I agree with you in regards to the capacitor effects I did experience similar facts.
In regards to the electrolysys cells I took the apraoch with a switch to turn on and off the power and there is a similar affect but not ( hey I know some will now say thats like the oscilator version, but it is not) due to the shut off of the power and turn on it gives like I am not sure about this but it looks like the EM results because what is happening is that the rest voltage which remains in the cell for a few seconds holds the cell actually in a state like with the old radio tubes warm -up and after the power is back it gives a high impulse forcing the bubbles out. The time period are not jet determined but it looks like between 1/2 to 1 1/2 seconds on and 1 second off are the most effiecent with the highest output. I will try this in the future with a 555 circuit adjustable powering ehter a relais or a trans.
In regards to the rods I can tell you and I have lots of expierence witth rods that the output is not even comparable because4 due to the vertical location the rods getting saturated and produce over time less and less pretty much the samething is happening with a wire spirale I am talking about straight DC I did not experiementing with high voltage versions lik the bingo gas or so.
Thanks anyway for your input.
greetings walt

[Walter Hofmann]

Hi all
here is a vid about the comparisson between 1 cell and 3 cells inseries like it shows the 3 cells in series seems to bring even less then the 1 cell, and only the top cell produces bubbles and less then the 1 cell unit which is the one on the right.
If someone like to have some of the SS 316L mesh, I can send it for $ 6/ square feet plus postage.
what I now need to find out how many of the disc I can get in a house filter housing.
It also semms to me that that there is a connection between how much water is actually in the cell and the output. I am not sure jet but tests with measuring the output via stefan s methode with the plastic bottle showed that a cell which contains about 0,5liter water fills a 0,5 liter bottle within 60 seconds and a cell with around 1 liter water makes it in 35 seconds, but I have to test this more.
look at the vid and let me know what you think.
greetings
walt

- In multi +-mesh cell
It is because bubbles in multi +- mesh cell must not pass through another +-mesh cell (bipolar) where they can catch + or - needed to recombine back to water. This is why the plastic sheet should be here (path for bubbles seems longer (in the center) but this path is only unipolar so recombination is not likely to happen.). There might be allso a difference if upper mesh plate is - or upper mesh plate is +.

- And allso with more water Archimed law acts stronger so bubbles faster goes up leaving surface of electrode free for another to create.

I try this and it does not work like you mentioned what is happening is that the plastic holds back the bubbles and the output is even less then without.
Also the series does not work really in regtards to rise the output the plates horizontal in paralell stacked like a pyramidal form seems to be the max.
greetings
walt