HHO heaters design questions

[CompuTutor]

Many have chimed in with relevant safety issues, I'm gald to see all those
like the extreme flame propagation speed of Hydrogen mixed with Oxygen,
(Technically, Hydrogen pressed into the transfer state is neither an explosion nor ignition,
it is a change-state cascade-failure from one state into another not currently understood !)
heck, an oxidizer and a fuel in a single path is almost ludicrous in application

Accident waiting to happen...



But the point of this thread is using it for heat.

modulating the output with a PWM (pulse-width modulator) metered supply module of some kind is a good starting point to experimenting with this concept, but more experienced people above have pointed good safety tips to, like detecting the lack of flame realtime.

But now I will make a connection that is useful,
use STONE !
(DON'T ask me which type, varies by region/supplier...test ALL...)


Remember, most sublimation issues aside concerning metals (never use metals !),
the only thing that can absorb such intense nuclear-level interactions of HHO,
is a high crystal content style of stone that will convert the release into Near-IR.
There are those here that think metal works ifflow is high, the matter de-evolves)

Yes, they will sublimate too IF overcome by value of exposure, ANY matter will.

Have you seen the YouBoob vid sublimating a diamond, heheh, nice...


Harvest the heat into an air flow exchanger,
or make the stone the heat exchanger into
a fluid of your heat's transport's choice.

What did you think those "Amish" heaters for free are
(that only charge you for the crafted wooden case only)
are really ?

The name of the game is to change the steady-state output of heat from the emission frequency it is native to,
to a more usable frequency of heat that WE (mere humans) can use bodily.

Taking a row of heat lamp bulbs,
and heating a flank of stone,
then running air through the path,
through the bulb sockets first (safety),
then past all the bulbs next to harvest,
then lastly past the stone's emission last,
converts previous emissions into usable heat !

sounds to simple, sorry, works, PROVEN...



Here's the rub, the "potential" to harvest heat from an HHO state conversion (flame) is sadly limited to a very tightly confined volumetric area, we all know this.

The area of conversion-event institutionalization
(the flame event horizon of incidence to be clear)
to flame event collapse is very limited in length.

I've seen 180-PSI + 120-PSI oxi-HY tips burn (BoobTube),
they stretched it to a touch over an inch effective usability,
even though it looked inches long in a CCD/CMOS sensor.



worse yet is that it relies on the actual matter involved in the conversion.

We can pass our hands through safely due to our composition,
but don't get a piece of Titanium involved in the conversion,
or your going to melt almost anything else around !

That is what makes the crystal structure of certain stone so special to this process,
I can't say if it is the lattice structure, or what else makes this work for this really,
but certain stone compositions almost seem to eat the thermals emitted during conversion
and then the simple matter is you have a very friggin hot stone now

just like we struggle to "pipe" the heat away from our CPU's fast enough,
you will struggle the be able to pump the heat away fast enough from stone.

My visual is stone with different depth bores from each end,
with matching flame burner/igniter tube assembalies each,
that is bored in from each side (end) to spread the surface heat.

As a resulte, a stones surface with IR spread and thermal input

Then a dual-faced cross-flow fluid recovery aspect,
as fluid's seem to be the best at absorbing thermals,
without changing states and loosing energy thusly.



As long as people can "get it",
grammer is a luxery for next lifetime,
and I'll always mistype and/or mispell...

Hope you'll let this slide.



OK, off the end of the ruler idea:
Peltier's have significant losse in efficientcy,
heat pumps have an < 4.0 avergae gain too.

can a heat pump generate enough heat to service
the very pumps/fans involved,
or does current accepted law forbt that ?


Second law of conversion is only for closed-loop (Steam) assesments.

[ydeardorff]

I dont really follow the LENR equation, but Ill look it up. As I have reviewed a document thus far it deal with cold fusion which is not what Im doing.

[CompuTutor]

As this thread is yours, I'll respect that and butt out,
but LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) is a misnomer,
Just as bad as HHO is actually.

The human cell is supported by LENR by that definition,
and it is in infinitely inexaustable supply of energy too.

At least I didn't make up a new acronym like them to explain
what they really don't understand the process of, like:
CSNR (Change-State Nuclear Interaction) or something...

Ignore me, try stone, forget metal, it won't work.

Did you know Aero-Gel is a metal though (shuttle tiles),
it is mostly aluminum cool-whip with silica (sand) ?

[ydeardorff]

Sorry, That makes sense.
Yes, Aero-gel has been a favorite of mine for years. A lattice matrix of silica made from nano crushed sand, and isoprophyl alcohol. 99% air, but with the tensile strength of steel per volume, all the while being lighter than polystyrene foam. It in fact floats on nitrogen. It can be made into just about anything, a battery, a capacitor, a conductor, an insulator, a foam that can be made with an insulating factor of R85. You can even eat it. But its best point is a piece the thickness of a piece of paper can rest on your hand, with a butane torch blowing on it, and you wont feel any heat transfer.

So despite its expense, it could be something very useful if married with the brown gas torch, or flame element for heating applications, as you could really keep the hot section hot, and not lose any heat applied. While keeping the rest of the equipment safe in a heater or other application. But at 70+ dollars for a little piece the size of a marble, its not in my pocket book. Another down side is its very fragile, like glass.

My flame tips arrived, a 3, 2, and 1 size from a jewelry torch. No I have to find a way to adapt them for use.

If I can get the flame size small enough, to get past the reactive flame, to just its heat output, I can dial it up or down as necessary.

I picked up some fittings to make some YouTube flame arrestors, and a bubbler diffuser, only to find the resistance to airflow through the line was ridiculous, So I may toss em, and take the parts back. My welding flame arrestor requires fairly high pressure to operate, so I may have to toss it as well.

My test bench is coming along nicely though. I have a generation side, and a testing side. The generation side is where all the liquid items are, and the dry side which is where all my testing and the gas is sent (separated by a wooden partition). The High powered A/C electronics are protected, and mounted above everything, and the lowered powered DC items, like gauges are mounted opposite of the generation side, yes still protected from any liquids, or mishaps.
Next Ill be working out a splash cage and fans for the generation side. The bench fully illuminated, and has enough room for me to take notes while its running. I'm using 10 gauge wire as the mains to the hydrogen generator, with a 30amp fuse placed in line to protect the electronics.
My reservoir is very small maybe a quart in liquid volume, and the cell is a 7 plate gap design. I made it like this as partially its what I had, but I should be able to get the cell up to operating temps faster with the smaller volume of electrolyte, and get to my testing ranges faster. The trick will be control of the cell.

Its a parallel cell, using highly reactive (electrically) elements researched from my chemistry experience in my last class, and trial and error.
My concern is even a a 40 amp dc to dc power module may end up just continuing to climb till it pops the fuse. So I will have to take things slowly to find the sweet spot. This would be where I have a sustained temperature, and a sustained flame via a torch tip.
Given each cell is different, I cannot use anything but estimates on starting points from other peoples experience.

Measurement: I bought an vertical ball gauge oxygen meter that measures in LPM. Now this is calibrated for oxygen which is a different density than a hydrogen and oxygen mixture, so I know it will be off a bit. So I also have the ghetto bottle filling station as well. Having two meters to measure gas should back each other up when it comes to real results.

I only wish i could find a gas sensor setup that would measure the content of the gases being produced. Nothing currently out there is made to detect gas content values in an air stream, for the gases we are making with these cells. If there was and it wasn't super expensive, then we would have the real tangible answers we need to refine the process further. After all its not just about the LPM, it about what is being produced in LPM. Some electrolyte, and metal mixtures produce deadly gases that would not be wise to exploit.

One thought for home heating though. We all know carbon monoxide is dangerous being released into a home via a heater, so is CO2. I had thought of using one of those Carbon monoxide detectors to check for CO content in the gas stream. I mean we wouldn't want a byproduct of the generator to be producing CO in the air while we sleep right? Perhaps just pointing the tube toward the sensor would reveal whether CO is being produced or not. Or it might false alarm by detecting what it thinks is CO as well.

I use K2CO3 for testing the bench, and KOH for actual recorded testing. Since Potassium Carbonate is less apt to burn me in the mixture rates Im using. Then once all the leaks are ironed out, I can rinse out the system and run it with KOH knowing Im not going to destroy my new bench.

Another thought of concern is hydrogen is lighter than even helium, it took scientists years to figure out how to store helium successfully. Now we are not storing it I know, however how much gas is making it past our gaskets? Could this lead to a fire if not properly ventilated?

[ydeardorff]

Sry for the DP,

I hooked up my bernz-o-matic to my propane bottle last night since it had a #3 tip on it like my jewelry tips I bought and lit her up to see what the flame size was. And frankly I was astonished having a 6 to 8 inch flame coming off this thing, with such a small nozzle.

When I get some more funds, Im going to make something that will allow me to test all the tips out.

Has anyone tried the basketball inflater tip as a flame tip? i wonder if it would melt after awhile.