Knitel's Electrostatic Displacer Free Energy Device

[wizkycho]

However, I have a nagging question; through capacitor-like action, would not the charge 'bleed-off' the reciprocating plate? Would the negative charge stay on the transformer plate even after the rotor has passed?

Yes good question, some quality work should be done with isolation of plates so the charge doesn't interract with air. in rotor
design rotor plates must be designed so that when one rotor plate exits the other enters trafo pair of stator.

some of the charge would eventally be lost (no isolation is perfect) but that ammount can be recharged with some HV trafo
that is constantly connected to plates...

igor

[Jdo300]

Hey,

You could incorporate the concept of Nicholson's Doubler (an electrostatic influence machine) to keep your plates charged. Here's a link to a great article explaining the concept:

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/nicholson.html

God Bless,
Jason O

[Hel]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I found this rather old topic searching for messages
inherent the Thestatika... if that doesn't annoy you too much I would like to resume
it a bit since I think that the concept originally exposed really needs further discussion
and understanding.

Here an apparently intriguing as possibly misleading idea has been proposed.
Synthetically:
-A circuit driving an AC load (a stepdown transformer, in the example) originates from
two conductive plates
-An external, movable plate is electrostatically charged (either by an external
HV power supply, or it might also be a permanently charged electret), no matter
if positively or negatively
-This plate is moved cyclically to face alternatively the two plates, separated from
them by a suitable dielectric (solid or air)
-An alternated current is electrostatically induced in the circuit this way because,
assuming the moving plate is positively charged, electrons in the circuit tend to travel
attracted toward one or the other end, depending on where the moving plate is at
a given moment with respect to the "input" plates - and viceversa
-It is finally asserted that this current would flow "for free", or (implicitely) that at
least some gain would somewhere occur in the process. A patent also is given where
a similar (if I intend correctly) principle is exploited (I didn't manage to gain access
to it btw...)

If we substitute the mechanical work required to oscillate the circuit with a direct
electrical work instead, we can redraw your scheme as follows:



It comes out a simple AC circuit where the load (a trafo in the example) is electrically
separated from the generator by two capacitors, each in series on the legs.
I'm not an electronic engineer and I can't name such an arrangement properly. I made some
search and strangely I could not find any elementary circuit schematic where the load is
"coupled" this way. Perhaps it's usually an unwanted, or non convenient configuration,
I don't know and forgive my ignorance (but comments are welcome here).

But I see clearly that in either cases you won't get the AC induced in the circuit for
free. By moving the charged plate mechanically you will surely experience a BACK TORQUE,
it's not much different if it were a magnetic circuit, just here we're dealing with
electrostatic rather than magnetic attraction-repulsion. It's always moving something
(electrons thru the circiut in this case) using a force, a static field, think it as an
invisible latch. The more the capacitance (i.e the larger/nearer the plates), the stronger
the force to couple the work. Really I see no point why you should gain anything in the
process, even using HV, VHV or trying with different frequencies: the background is
always the same. Unless you using HV can get some charge from the air...

This topic catched my eye just because it intrigued me and made me reasoning on an
apparently so obvious thing. So my disappointing that no crude (but useful) technical
intervention had been made in merit yet.

Just because I'm so stupid, I tried out the electrical equivalent on my desk.
I plugged (to be safe) a 230->24 vac trafo in the mains. I connected two
capacitors (5 uF, 450 Vac) in series at the secondary legs as shown. I measured
the output voltage after the caps: 24 vac. Then the short circuit current: about 14.6
milliamps. Without the caps the trafo I used would keep a short circuit current of
about 0.8 Amps. With short circuit after the caps, current is only 14.6 mA, and the
same is reflected right at the trafo output, 14.6mA - so you see that nothing is
given for free here. The two caps act like "chokes", they separate galvanically the
load from the source, keeping the E field (potential) but allowing electrons to move
with less energy, so less current, depending on how they're big. I tried with
littler caps, less current allowed. I tried connecting a load in place of the
short circuit, the current is limited but that little draw is still measureable
at the trafo secondary, it doesn't come from heaven. It needs work to push/pull
the electrons in the circuit even thru the ES induction in the capacitors, no matter
if you supply that work mechanically or electrically, it's the same. Well,
doing that mechanically is really worse, because somewhere you'll have to convert
some electrical energy into motion for that, eg using a motor, with heat losses.

Coming back to Thestatika, yes I think too that the antennae keys could be
stimulated this way (electrostatic induction) but the surplus energy there
comes surely from air ions, with the machine itself acting as an electron pump,
allowing their collection - nobody knows HOW.

[mscoffman]

@Hel

I think the Testatika machine use "pickoff" capacitors; Metal plates that are
influenced by alternate +/- sector charges, and that substitute for the brushes
in a normal Winhurst Machine. Primary Reason: To eliminate brush wear.
One of the the things that needs to be accomplished by the Testatika
is voltage step down and pulling off AC rather than DC static charge
directly helps the voltage step down situation. By operating the "tube" with lower
AC voltages one avoids the +10KV DC region of X-ray production in vacuum
tubes.

The Ant. Keys are a pseudo random digital sequences designed again, to lower
static electric wear on sharp edges of the variable sector metalization
patterns.

So the testatika machine is solving a series of problems for very variable
level of power production in a pre-digital controller environment.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[Hel]

@Hel

One of the the things that needs to be accomplished by the Testatika
is voltage step down and pulling off AC rather than DC static charge
directly helps the voltage step down situation. By operating the "tube" with lower
AC voltages one avoids the +10KV DC region of X-ray production in vacuum
tubes.

You may operate a Wimshurst to generate HV, then step it down -ok let's
assume you can do that with 100% efficency- no matter if you pull off HV
as AC or DC, with or w/o contacting brushes, yet what you get will be a
bit less than the power needed to rotate the disks, thus you can't power
with it a motor and make the machine self sustaining. Somewhere energy
has to be picked up from the outside. Where do you think the energy is
collected "from the air" in the Testatika ? At the disks' side or somewhere
down the transformation chain ? I don't think a great amount of charge
can be taken from the disks because 1) the non contacting brushes should
spark quite a few, and perhaps it would require a potential >> 10KV
2) Baumann stated that "the charge must never be taken off the disks" or such

The Ant. Keys are a pseudo random digital sequences designed again, to lower
static electric wear on sharp edges of the variable sector metalization
patterns.
So the testatika machine is solving a series of problems for very variable
level of power production in a pre-digital controller environment.

pseudo random digital sequences ? Like 10110101010111010 ? Where, how ?
That's the first time I hear this theory... can you explain it more detailedly
please ?