Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[TinselKoala]

I have accedientally build a rather efficient, I believe, Joule Thief.  With a dead 0.8v AA, it could light up 11 led in parallel brightly.  The current draw from the battery is around 38ma.  The led keep light up, though very dim, when battery drop to 0.3v.  I believe the secret is on the toroid as other toroids would draw over 110ma.  I could not replicate it even with the exact ferrite toroid and wires.  I have tried 4 exact ferrite toroid and wires from the same source.

These results are not remarkable; look back thru the several JT threads and you will see much better performances... and replicable ones. I have a simple, basic JT right here in front of me right now that lights up 4 parallel rows of 11 series LEDs -- plus two  more to connect to the transistor-- 46 LEDs -- running on a battery that measures 0.43 volts while running. I don't know how long it will run or how low the battery needs to be for it to stop... it hasn't stopped yet !!
But as exciting that is for me, I am fully aware (since I've been reading the threads from the beginning) that even this is a mediocre performance as far as efficient JTs go.

Any idea how to prove if the Joule Thief is overunity?

Sure. Take the output of one JT, put it into a filter capacitor, and use the filter capacitor to run a second JT. Run the first JT from the output of the second one in the same way. Remove all batteries and stand back. When it keeps running, you have proved that your JTs are overunity. (You might need to daisy-chain a number of JTs in this manner to have it work. Let me know how many it takes.)

Any idea how to identify what cause the toroid special?

Demonstrating that the toroid IS special in some way would be a good start. Then you'd look at the B-H curve for the material and compare performance with other well-characterized material formed into toroids or other shapes.

Any idea how to replicate the toroid?

Trial and error, because there isn't enough information in your report to do anything else.

[plengo]

Plengo:

Well a mechanical analogy for a coil with current flowing through it is a spinning flywheel.  They both store energy and then release it back and exactly the same equations describe their behaviour.  Do you consider a flywheel to be a possible source of free energy?  Many times I have posted a simple test to see if a coil discharges more energy than you put into it but not once has a free energy enthusiast offered to run the test.

The answer to your question is that the inductor takes extra get energy to get the current flowing but the resistor doesn't require the extra energy.  The extra energy builds up the magnetic field and when you discharge the inductor across a high resistance you get the BEMF spike and that extra energy is released.  It's exactly the same for a mechanical flywheel.  You have to apply torque to it to get it spinning and then when you apply the breaks to the flywheel there is your mechanical "BEMF spike."

MileHigh

first, thank you for answering my question. The inductor takes more energy to store the energy as magnetic field? Extra energy? if the inductor has for example 10 ohms resistance, how can it really take more energy than a regular resistor?


Fausto.

[Pirate88179]

MH:

I agree with you on what you said about the duty cycle and the human eye.  No problem there.

If resonance is not a factor in these circuits then why is it when I run a basic JT circuit from say a 10 F cap, and use a vr as the base resistor, I can add resistance and the lights get brighter and brighter and then, they will start getting dimmer as I pass "the sweet spot".  This is a very delicate adjustment to get it just right.  Any change in the circuit, even one winding, will make this resistance incorrect again and it must be retuned.  You are saying that this tuning does not hit a resonance node?  If it is not a type of resonance, then what is it that allows this tuning to achieve some very dramatic results when hitting the sweet spot?

Bill

[ltseung888]

Lawrence.... did you make that graph with data from your scope set to AC COUPLING??? It sure looks to me like you did.

YES.  Thank you for your enlightenment.  I redid the experiments using DC coupling.  I can now specifically pick out situations where COP is greater than 1 with DC coupling setting on my oscilloscope at home.
There will be more experiments and many researchers double and triple checking the results.  Once that is done and confirmed, I shall publish the results.
The new technique makes resonance hunting and extracting electron motion energy a piece of cake.  The commercial interests may try to stop its publication.  The latest date for this information to become public is Oct 2013.
All Glory and Praise to the Almighty.

[WilbyInebriated]

All Glory and Praise to the Almighty.

YES. all glory and praise to Shangdi!