Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal

[ramset]

Speaking of Zero Milehigh.
that's about how much experience you have looking for ways to harvest energy from
the ground.

My money is on the experimenters finding something long before the fellows that don't even look.

Gotta Go do some more work [ME]

here is more from dragon answering a query from Mr. Aking at Energetic on his
High Amp from the ground experiments /experience .

A King asks this question  Do you have a full circuit digram for this part [your claim /experience posted below in Quote:
Dragon
Quote
I became interested in the B&L device primarily because I was looking for a current source, the basics of this is current. I wound up a toroid and with a little experimentation I found I could generate 400 amps with a mere 15 watt input - beautiful - with some nichrome strands I should be able to heat water with very little energy. I noticed something else from this... I wrapped a coil of 1/0 cable around an 8" PVC form to reduce the draw on the primary of the torroid which dropped the input down to 8 watts, still providing the overall 400 amp/T ratio when I noticed a ceramic magnet more than 6 ft away chattering bringing it close to the coil was amazing - that shouts motor drive quite loudly to me. No magic just plain logic and truth.
Thanks for sharing.



end Quote:

Dragon's reply to Kings query  ?? .. Do you have a full circuit digram for this part:
Thanks for sharing.

dragon Answers and adds schematic below.
Quote
I haven't built the NiChrome drum to fully test the idea of heating water, only small tests with a 200 watt bulb for heat output - tested but not confirmed. The other is the diagram for the magnetic field. This actually opened a door for some interesting ideas as solutions to some previous projects that have stumped me for some time now... 
end quote

**original post number 342 here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20091-barbosa-leal-devices-info-replication-details-12.html

[Grumage]

Dear MileHigh.

You have me perplexed. The term impedance, surely you should be asking resistance ? The term Impedance is better related to AC circuits.
Batteries have internal resistance, this is what limits their rate of output.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance

I already provided the figures for my particular experiment. At 20 vdc we had a current of 0.07 A, which by ohms law gives a value of 285.7 ohms.

I also have to differ with you as regards Bedini motors. My successful Bedini Cole window motor ran continuously on the same single battery for 3 months. The battery in question was a nearly " Knackered " Yuasa 12 V 7 ah Gel cell. It never lost a millivolt, stayed at 8.6 V continuous!! For me though, it did not serve any useful purpose other than to rotate. There was no free lunch !! 

Cheers Grum.

[TinselKoala]

Most people who post on these forums actually do not do experiments, they merely do _demonstrations_ which do not have the elements that are required for a True Experiment, and hence they cannot assign or determine causal relationships amongst the variables in the system.

A True Experiment tests an hypothesis. An hypothesis is essentially an "If-then" statement about relationships between variables or qualities of a system. These variables or qualities must be "operationalized" which means stating them in a form that is _quantitative_ and amenable to measurement. Once an hypothesis is formed and the system's variables and quantities/qualities have been operationalized, then it's time to go to actual work. The experimenter varies one or more Independent Variables and looks for changes in one or more Dependent Variables, while controlling for, keeping constant or otherwise eliminating or accounting for "third variables" that could possibly also affect the Dependent Variables that are the outcome measures of the experiment.

Note that there are some technical terms with precise meanings in the above:

True Experiment
Hypothesis
Operationalization of Variables
Independent Variable
Dependent Variable
Control Experiment
Third Variables

I am not making this stuff up. Look up the terms above in your favorite scientific encyclopedia or on the internet.

As I have said, it's rare to see True Experiments being performed on this and some other forums. Hence it is rare to see anything that can actually say "This causes that" with scientific rigour.



And let's please remember Ohm's Law, which hasn't yet been repealed. 1/0 solid copper wire has a resistance of 0.09827 milliOhms per foot.
http://www.engineersedge.com/copper_wire.htm
So, say, 20 feet of it would have a resistance of about 2 milliOhms. At 400 amps of real current, the power dissipated in the wire itself would be I²R = 400 x 400 x 0.002 = about 320 Watts. And the claim is being made that this can be done with only 15 watts (or even 8 watts) of input power to the system.

Forget about Clarence and B&L, because Dragon has got everybody beat with his system that can do this!



The photo below demonstrates what just 10 Amps RMS current does when sent through some 5mm Nichrome ribbon. A True Experiment would compare this result with what happens when I send 400 Amps RMS through the same ribbon. Would anyone like to predict or guess at what the result would be?

[TinselKoala]

@Grum:

You may find this page of interest:

http://lygte-info.dk/info/Internal%20impedance%20UK.html

Also, as you must surely know, the open-circuit or lightly loaded terminal voltage of a battery is _not_ a good indicator of the state of charge of the battery. It's too bad you didn't perform a real load-test of your Bedini battery, before and after running the motor (A True Experiment, instead of just a demonstration.)

[MileHigh]

Grum:

I am not going to look at TK's link because I am over tired.

Here is my take on it for you:  Yes the term impedance is associated with AC circuits and impedance changes with frequency.

"Resistance" tends to imply something that is fixed.  However, the output resistance of a battery changes as the battery discharges and is a dynamic entity.  Hence, people drifted towards the term "output impedance" for a battery as opposed to "output resistance" because of the dynamic nature of the entity.

Certainly output impedance changes as a battery becomes discharged.  For all I know (never tested) the output impedance even changes depending on how much the battery is loaded.   Also, if the battery is heavily loaded and starts to heat up inside, the output impedance will change because of that.

So I am guessing the dynamic nature of the variable made people drift towards "impedance" instead of "resistance."

If you were a battery keener, one can assume that different battery sizes and different battery chemistries will have unique "signature" output impedances.

Also, if you know the output impedance of a battery, and you model it as a simple resistor, then for a given current flow, you have a handle on how much power is being burnt off inside the battery as it drives a certain load.

What people around here always seem to forget (especially in the various cockamamie 'one battery backwards in the circuit to charge' configurations) is that when you are discharging a battery, and when you are charging a battery, energy is always being lost in the battery itself.

Finally, for all I know, I will guess that for a given battery type, the discharging impedance, and the battery charging impedance are not necessarily the same.  Perhaps seeing an increase in the charging impedance of a battery is an indicator that the battery is getting old and less functional.

There are a lot of battery-type experiments on the forums, and this is never discussed.  One more time, that trumps A.King21's comments about experiments reigning supreme.

For the types of experiments done around here, battery impedance may be a very useful parameter to get to know.   And the majority of the experimenters just measure loaded and unloaded voltage.   I am just winging this whole discussion in this posting.  All that one has to do is spend a few nights researching and then doing your own bench tests to get a feel for this stuff and you will know way more than me.

MileHigh