Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)

[F_Brown]

I'm glad to announce QEG SPICE Model 2.1!

It turned out that a third table was unnecessary after all.  I found that the arbitrary inductor model can be used in linear mode, the explanation of how to do the is just missing from the manual.  The solution is easier than I expected. 

So, without further adieu, here's the model:

[Farmhand]

COP and efficiency coefficients generally refer to the useful output divided by the expended input.  Output that is in the form of unused heat is usually considered loss.  For the same sunlight, a solar thermal collector where heat is the useful output is around 75% efficient delivering that heat to the heat transfer fluid, while PV where electricity is the useful output is constrained to about 20% for single layer modules.  For a machine like the QEG the idea is to be a generator.  Anything less than self-running makes it a complicated and noisy heater.

By expended input you mean input provided by us don't you ? Other wise how would a heat pump go over C.O.P. 1 ? How much energy do we provide to a solar panel ?

If expended input meant all input then C.O.P. 1.0 could never be exceeded period. Would that be true ?

My understanding of C.O.P. which I have stated before is that the C.O.P. = useful output divided by the input provided by us.

If C.O.P. was defined as useful output divided by the entire expended input from all sources then C.O.P. 1.0 could never be exceeded, as before energy can exit as output it must first either enter as input or be stored in the device (which is input) before it can be output.

ergo solar panels output more than is input by us so they are over C.O.P. 1.0 and over unity. Very simple logic and it makes sense. At least to me.

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Using the logic that says solar panels are not O.U. is saying that once a self runner powers itself and there is no input from us then it has no C.O.P. because there is no expended input.

Imagine a mythical self runner that was given a small starting charge 12 months ago and now stores it's own starting energy so that all that is needed is to flick a switch and it starts to output 5 kW. What is it's C.O.P. today after starting ? infinite ?  Would it be O.U. or would it be just like a solar panel in that none of it's output is provided by us ?

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All that matters to us is the amount we input compared to the useful work performed.

However that is defined makes little to no difference the result is the same.

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Solar panels are about 20 % efficient at utilizing the energy provided by the Sun. Not about 20% efficient at utilizing the energy provided by us. The actual input to the solar panel is the (about 20% of the energy that hits the panel) not the 100 % of energy that it is exposed to. The other 80% or so never entered the solar system as active energy so it is not really input, only the about 20% energy input is input.

How can energy that never entered a system be considered input or losses ?

The actual losses in a solar system are part of the 20% or so input, which is not our input anyway.

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[MarkE]

By expended input you mean input provided by us don't you ? Other wise how would a heat pump go over C.O.P. 1 ? How much energy do we provide to a solar panel ?

COP and efficiency are related but very distinct concepts. 

COP is a term almost totally exclusive to heat pumps.  COP refers to the ratio of heat energy moved from one temperature to another versus the amount of useful work that we have to add in order to effect that move.  If we move some quantity of heat:  Q from a reservoir at one temperature to another, then we still theoretically have the same quantity of heat Q.  We haven't used that heat to do anything.  In the ideal case we wouldn't have to add any energy, COP would be a division by zero, and be so large as to be undefined.  A COP of only 1 is very poor performance:  we have to add as much energy as heat we move.

Efficiency is a measure of the amount of useful output power obtained from the input power source.  Efficiency has built into it the presumption that the input is all theoretically useful.  In the case of a solar module efficiency tells us a lot about how much material we need, how much area we need to cover, and how hot the materials will get when exposed to a given irradiance.

If expended input meant all input then C.O.P. 1.0 could never be exceeded period. Would that be true ?

It would, but for COP it does not.  See above.

My understanding of C.O.P. which I have stated before is that the C.O.P. = useful output divided by the input provided by us.

That's right.  But except for heat pumps COP is generally a pointless metric.  In your example of a solar module the COP for any module is indefinite.

If C.O.P. was defined as useful output divided by the entire expended input from all sources then C.O.P. 1.0 could never be exceeded, as before energy can exit as output it must first either enter as input or be stored in the device (which is input) before it can be output.

That's right.  But it is not defined that way.  See above.

ergo solar panels output more than is input by us so they are over C.O.P. 1.0 and over unity. Very simple logic and it makes sense. At least to me.

COP is not relevant to over unity the way that most people discuss it.  If we used COP > 1 to mean over unity, then any mined fuel that produces more thermal energy than required to extract and refine it would also be over unity.  Since most people talking about over unity are interested in something to replace fossil and nuclear fuels that already have a COP > 1, COP > 1 doesn't tell us much about any prospective replacement.

Efficiency also ultimately has a problem when talking about over unity.  The way that most people discuss over unity is in terms of a device that produces useful output great enough to run itself and provide surplus.  Once such a machine is started it would generate useful output without any useful input.  The efficiency of such a device would be undefined.  Efficiency is a useful metric up to the point that an over unity device is configured as a self-running machine.  The meaningful values for efficiency are:  0 - 100%, and undefined.

[MileHigh]

Here is another take on a heat pump:

You have a big cart that holds a bunch of big metal trays.  Each tray contains burning coal.

You are in a large room.  You have a small motorcycle battery and the big cart has a small drive motor.  You connect the battery and the big cart full of burning coal slowly moves from one side of the room to the other side of the room.

There is your heat pump but you have changed your relative positions on the "temperature elevator" when you look at the energy dynamics.  It's still a heat pump.  Are you supposed to measure the battery energy used to move the cart and compare that to the heat energy in the fire and brimstone and burning coals?  What's the COP?

We know our buddy Aaron pitches a heat pump as an OU device.

MileHigh

[MarkE]

Tom Valone also stated in an interview on American Anti-Gravity that a heat pump is an OU device.  His position is at odds with elementary physics.