KARPEN PILE

[Philip Hardcastle]

There has been incessant arguing on the quentron thread about a device that has been running for 50 years, seemingly in contradiction to 2LOT. It deserves its own thread and I hope that this is where the argument will be continued.


Here is an article explaining to the reader the background of the Karpen pile, does it work by harvesting ambient thermal energy I do not know? I am an expert on quentron and I will release info when we are ready to sell devices, not until then. So here is the article 


KARPEN PILE ARTICLE
Now investigators of an amazing object stuck in the dusty corners of an obscure Romanian museum may have found the next best thing:

Whether a battery that has operated continuously since 1950 without a recharge can be termed perpetual may be open to debate, yet the fact remains that the remarkable device has never ceased working and doesn't look like it's about to give up the ghost anytime soon.

The battery that's been pumping out electricity faithfully for 60 years was built by Vasile Karpen.

Karpen's Pile

The director of the Dimitrie Leonida National Technical Museum in Romania, Nicolae Diaconescu, when interviewed about the battery by the Romanian newspaper, ZIUA (The Day) said, "I admit it's also hard for me to advance the idea of an overunity generator without sounding ridiculous, even if the object exists."

That the battery—called "Karpen's Pile"—exists is indisputable. 

When Karpen built the battery he claimed it would function forever. Although decades ago engineers and physicists that studied it believed it would stop working soon it never has stopped.
Those engineers and physicists are now long dead, but the amazing "perpetual" battery keeps humming along.

Patented in 1922, most scientists that have studied it over the ensuing decades cannot fathom exactly how or why it works.

The Karpen's pile that sits in the director's office at the museum was a prototype built to Karpen's specifications. It has two series-connected electric piles that move a small galvanometric motor. That motor spins a blade that's connected to a switch. Every half rotation the blade opens and then closes the circuit during the second half of the rotation.

According to some engineers that have analyzed the ingenious device, the blade's rotation is exactly timed to allow the piles to recharge themselves and re-establish their polarity before the next rotation of the blade.

ZIUA also reported that a measurement of the current established a steady one volt output—exactly the same as when the battery was first activated in 1950.

During the interview with the newspaper, Diaconescu added that "unlike the lessons they teach you in the 7th grade physics class, the 'Karpen's Pile' has one of its electrodes made of gold, the other of platinum, and the electrolyte (the liquid that the two electrodes are immersed in), is high-purity sulfuric acid."

The museum director also asserted the battery could be made larger to produce more power.

"The French showed themselves very interested by this patrimonial object in the 70s," Diaconescu said, "and wanted to take it. Our museum has been able to keep it, though. As time passed, the fact that the battery doesn't stop producing energy is more and more clear, giving birth to the legend of a perpetual motion machine."

Recently, some leading European electrical engineers proposed that the device creates power by converting heat into mechanical energy. Diaconescu doesn't agree.

The fascination over Karpen's Pile is fed by the possible physics behind it. Some who have studied the theory Karpen created explaining the functionality of his battery believe the engineer's device violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
Others scoff at that, but then go on to argue that it may well be an application of the physics inherent in drawing power from the theoretical "Zero Point," thus making it a Zero Point Energy device.

Whatever the cause, understanding the driving principle underlying Karpen's Pile might revolutionize both physics and the search for alternative energy sources.

[profitis]

that WASN'T ALL THEY KNEW @sarkeizen.they KNEW the same galvanic rules that you find in the college textbook today.why debate about it for 70 years and still on?we don't know what's in the oxford bell cell.we KNOW what's in the karpen cell,since THEN.we even REPLICATED it over the years,PLAYED with it,shoved it into labs(russian,chinese,french,german)yet no consensus.why.

[Philip Hardcastle]

@profitis,


For the readers info can you fill in some details.


I see the Karpen pile produces 1 Volt, but can you tell us something of its power output per cm2 of electrodes? clearly if it can run the motor that cycles the device it can produce useful output, and the director of the museum states it can be scaled, so can you tell us if it has been applied to power something external to the pile?


Do you feel its output can be dramatically increased, perhaps in a manner similar to ultra caps where we can have incredible surface area in a compact form.


Apart from Gold and Platinum, what other combination of metals work and how do they differ in output?


thanks

[profitis]

Sure phil.you're looking at roughly 0.2v/single couple so he had to stack a whole bunch together into 2 piles,the power supply alternating between them with each rev of the motor brushes.that motor would definitely require several milliampere to do its thing so it was a fair amount of power coming out there.one square cm of a single couple(platinized platinum) will give roughly 150microamp at the top of the powerburst curve.if it were a normal cell the electrodes wouldve corroded away 40 years ago at that power draw. Naturaly its power can be fairly increased nowadays with modern fuelcell platinum sponge tech but the original is just way too costly for. commercial use.apart from the 02/air based cells you want to try the hydrogen based cells eg nickel/silver or palladium/silver variety.they differ enormously in power output versus the original.between ten to hundred times power density.scary stuff @phill

[Philip Hardcastle]

@profitis, so you are saying with the right combo of metals, a stack of layers and using sponge forms, it would be possible to have a pile that outputs say 2V @ 1A in a volume of, say, 1 Litre, is this correct?