Lenz free generator

[i_ron]

Hi Ron - I am blushing... I fumble my way through what I can, using the "try and try again" technique... Math is not my strong point, but I try, I find it does help sometimes.

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?

I felt that the Rotor was Riding the Magnetic Field, the Magnetic Field from Lenz's Law, the Output Magnetic field from the draw of Current on the Output.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Chris,you were concerned that I was running into saturation so I have taken 4 of the 10 magnets out.


While it was on the RV I did a reading, ready? the draw went up!  Up to 67 watts (3000 RPM)


I put it back (with the reduced magnet count) on the original prime mover...


and the "action" (at 3000 RPM) has gone away,  Now at the slow speed the numbers are close, 9.8 watts in,  for 9 watts out, the "special" has gone to 13.5 watts in for 12.98 watts out. The high speed got a little worse with 28 watts in for 22 watts out. So removing 4 of the 10 magnets is not an improvement.


You may be correct with "riding the magnetic field" because as we see here the flux field has to met a certain strength criteria to work in our favour...However, that being said the increase draw to 67 watts (on the RV) is, in both cases, with no load on the generator... thoughts?


Ron

[i_ron]

Hi Ron -

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Chris, to be more specific, the drag increases up to a certain point, then there is a dip, followed by a resumption of the increase.


This is with no electrical load being drawn, so it is not Lenz related. It must then be strictly a magnetic phenomenon.


Ron 

[i_ron]

The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.

Brad

Thanks Brad, will look into that in the AM


Ron

[EMJunkie]

The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.


Brad

I am a poorly educated Motor Nube, but I would tend to agree, even with my Nube experience!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

[EMJunkie]

Chris,you were concerned that I was running into saturation so I have taken 4 of the 10 magnets out.


While it was on the RV I did a reading, ready? the draw went up!  Up to 67 watts (3000 RPM)


I put it back (with the reduced magnet count) on the original prime mover...


and the "action" (at 3000 RPM) has gone away,  Now at the slow speed the numbers are close, 9.8 watts in,  for 9 watts out, the "special" has gone to 13.5 watts in for 12.98 watts out. The high speed got a little worse with 28 watts in for 22 watts out. So removing 4 of the 10 magnets is not an improvement.


You may be correct with "riding the magnetic field" because as we see here the flux field has to met a certain strength criteria to work in our favour...However, that being said the increase draw to 67 watts (on the RV) is, in both cases, with no load on the generator... thoughts?


Ron

Hey Ron, I completely agree with your findings here! I saw the same thing! Time Rate of Change, of the Magnetic Field is the key, if the Magnetic Field (B) is lower in Value the EMF will be less.

MMF, the Magnetomotive Force is the Current through Windings (N), F = NI, which is the Magnetising Force back on the Core, in this case, this is Lenz's Law, EMF is 180 degrees out of phase, and so, the MMF will also be 180 degrees out of phase, but we redirect it with this configuration.

We could do some Math here and look at figures, but I have had a Beer, so it would not look pretty, so maybe later?

But, yes youre seeing consistant agreement with my early experiments. I just think this working together is awesome!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org