Lenz free generator

[EMJunkie]

Just one comment
to my knowledge Milehigh is not banned , apparently Terms of use rules are being enforced ,and selective Moderation applied.
I know this moderation is annoying to Stefan as well as frustrating to members.

it would be better to stay within the agreed boundaries of the Forum rules.

respectfully

Chet

Thanks Chet, for correcting me!

I am sorry, I did read somewhere that was the case, without having verified it. Apologies!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

[EMJunkie]

Maybe a story might help, a long time ago in a land far away a man named Earnshaw developed a theorem. Earnshaw's theorem and he stated that "a collection of point charges cannot be maintained in a stable stationary equilibrium configuration solely by the electrostatic interaction of the charges". He also believed this applied to magnetic fields and everyone agreed one cannot balance or levitate one magnet on another. Then one day a clever inventor stumbled onto the fact that if the levitating magnet was spun like a top that in fact it could levitate in a stable manner. Some people believed Earnshaws theorem was an irrefutable law which had now been broken while some experts proclaimed the law was not broken. It was not broken because an extra force was present, the centrifugal force of the spinning top was present balancing the magnet and Earnshaws supposed law does not actually include extra forces only free floating charges and magnets. Thus a theorem or law may seem to always apply but only so long as the conditions applicable to the law do not change in any way.

This is very similar to the story of Lenz Law which states that "the current induced in a circuit due to a change or a motion in a magnetic field is so directed as to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force opposing the motion". Think about that... what does the Law actually say?. A changing magnetic field will induce a current in a circuit creating a second magnetic field which will oppose the first magnetic field change. It does not actually mention the source of the inducing magnetic field being opposed only the magnetic field itself being opposed. Thus a magnetic field source could create a rapidly changing magnetic field impulse then turn off before the field has had time to induce a current in the external circuit and the field source cannot be effected and Lenz Law has not been violated yet the external circuit would be induced by the field change after the source has turned off. Anything less would imply the field change has induced the target before it has actually reached the target which is absurd.

This is the problem with believing things which are not true and reading things into something which was never there nor implied to be there. Lenz said only the "inducing field" is opposed by the induced field no more no less.

AC, this is a very clever post.

Any and every Induced EMF, no matter how many times an Induced EMF occurs, in a single System, has an Effect of the Source, does it not?

But, if the Source is no longer a part of the System, switched out, then the Source is no longer affected, as you say.

How long can a Magnetic Field be kept High after Switch out of the Source?

In a super conductor, indefinitely, for ever in our terms, no Source, but Magnetic Field stays High... Electron's keep going and going and going...

So the Source can change. Not necessarily the Polarity, depending on point of View, but the Location in the system can very easily be changed. This can be done many ways. A common way is to short one coil... This I know you are very well aware of.

One point of view does not make for any proof, how you term:

He also believed this applied to magnetic fields and everyone agreed one cannot balance or levitate one magnet on another. Then one day a clever inventor stumbled onto the fact that if the levitating magnet was spun like a top that in fact it could levitate in a stable manner.

A Postulate, everyone agrees, with no proof...  Although most experiments might hold, who's to say one wont. After all, Charges are already in constant motion, all having their own Centrifugal forces... Thus making it true that a simple Magnet, will Violate Earnshaw's theorem before this experiment was even proposed - Surely we agree on this point?

There in lays the very basis of how we currently understand the Magnetic Field.

I was surprised to read this post.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

To iterate a little further, Electromagnetic Induction is a dependency process, for example:

   1: If there is No Voltage, there can be No Current.
   2: If there is No Current, there can be No Magnetic Field.
   3: If there is No Magnetic Field there can be No Electromagnetic Induction.

So, for Electromagnetic Induction to occur, there must be a Source of Magnetic Field, somewhere!!! Time rate of change is a requirement for the Voltage (EMF) Generation, NOT the Current, as mentioned above, the Current is dependent on the Voltage (along with Resistance)!!! It's true, that any Coil that has a Voltage across it (Active Element due to Induction) will be able to supply a Current, regulated by Ohms Law, which will change in Time!!! This is equivalent to a Magnetic Field Changing in Time!!!

Thus any and All Magnetic Fields Changing in Time can be a Source of Electromagnetic Induction!!!

If this Source is equal in Magnitude in comparison to the originating Source, then there will be a net zero effect, or no Tertiary EMF can be "Generated". Thus timing of the Coil Interactions is critical. Capacitance can be employed to do this, or switching if you have the means. Coils can be arranged to also offset this timing.

I hope those that do not already know this will see the importance here!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

[allcanadian]

@tinman

Yes i do AC,and it is obvious that you must have mapped the field incorrectly.[/size]I am also sure you have seen my test that i carried out,and you will also find that people of the likes of Poynt agree with me-perhaps he has time to answer this question as well.Like i said,the center of either an electromagnet or PM being of the weakest field,fools many people,as it is actually the strongest part of the field.

Touché, I would be interested to hear how you conducted your test and it is important that the instrument used not be subject to magnetic induction. That is no iron and no magnetic materials which produce a secondary field influencing the results. This is why I use hall effect sensors exclusively which are mostly benign so far as any real influence on the field to be measured is concerned.


AC

[allcanadian]

@EmJunkie

To iterate a little further, Electromagnetic Induction is a dependency process, for example:[/size]   1: If there is No Voltage, there can be No Current.   2: If there is No Current, there can be No Magnetic Field.   3: If there is No Magnetic Field there can be No Electromagnetic Induction.


So, for Electromagnetic Induction to occur, there must be a Source of Magnetic Field, somewhere!!! Time rate of change is a requirement for the Voltage (EMF) Generation, NOT the Current, as mentioned above, the Current is dependent on the Voltage (along with Resistance)!!! It's true, that any Coil that has a Voltage across it (Active Element due to Induction) will be able to supply a Current, regulated by Ohms Law, which will change in Time!!! This is equivalent to a Magnetic Field Changing in Time!!!Thus any and All Magnetic Fields Changing in Time can be a Source of Electromagnetic Induction!!!

Yes, a magnetic field change will produce Electro-Magnetic Induction and as Faraday said it does not matter how the change occurs only that it does. Which raises the question... how many ways could the magnetic field change occur and how many other ways are unknown to us?. In this respect we are only limited by our imagination and how we would conceive to invoke such a change.


For instance a solar flare occurs at the Sun and some ninety eight hours later we detect a magnetic field disturbance here on Earth... how does Lenz Law apply?. Obviously it's not like a magnet on a rotor inducing a current in a conductor which produces a magnetic field which opposes the magnetic field of the rotor. The disturbance travels through space ninety eight hours before it produces an effect here on Earth thus Lenz Law has limitations with respect to time and distance. It takes time for a cause to produce an effect and within this time frame we have options.


It is in these kinds of thought experiments that Lenz Law fails to hold relevance and as I said we are only limited by our imagination as to how we choose to solve these technical problems.


AC

[EMJunkie]

@EmJunkie

Yes, a magnetic field change will produce Electro-Magnetic Induction and as Faraday said it does not matter how the change occurs only that it does. Which raises the question... how many ways could the magnetic field change occur and how many other ways are unknown to us?. In this respect we are only limited by our imagination and how we would conceive to invoke such a change.


For instance a solar flare occurs at the Sun and some ninety eight hours later we detect a magnetic field disturbance here on Earth... how does Lenz Law apply?. Obviously it's not like a magnet on a rotor inducing a current in a conductor which produces a magnetic field which opposes the magnetic field of the rotor. The disturbance travels through space ninety eight hours before it produces an effect here on Earth thus Lenz Law has limitations with respect to time and distance. It takes time for a cause to produce an effect and within this time frame we have options.


It is in these kinds of thought experiments that Lenz Law fails to hold relevance and as I said we are only limited by our imagination as to how we choose to solve these technical problems.


AC

Active Imagination and Clever minds are the most powerfull thing we could ever study!!! It is amazing, not sure if you have read it, but for your perusal: Graham Gunderson's Energy conference presentation Most impressive and mysterious

In 1859, the Earth suffered a rather frightning event.

The Carrington event of 1859 - the largest solar flare ever recorded

The Sun, 149.6 million km's away from the Earth, had a coronal mass ejection (CME), this hit the Earth after 18 Hours.

When hitting the Earth, it sent the Telegraph Systems into complete dissaray. Setting fire to parts of it and destroying a great portion of it.

Do you think after 18 more hours the effects Lenz's Law reached the Sun?

Daniels Coils are very likely arranged to do something similar... Induction, via a small scale pulse in comparision, from the Motor and or the switch on event, the arrangement vs the frequency, probably could be calculated: 3×108 m/s divided by X Hz = X metres

0.02M between the two standalone Coils indicate a Frequency of about: 15000MHz or 15GHz

Not that I wish to attempt a replication, I leave that for others, but this is an example of how I try to use Diakoptics to see how something may work.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Exactly correct, I agree! Time and Space are related as anything that traverses space must take Time. The well known equation: Velocity = Time x Distance comes to mind! You know, months ago we here at this forum were not eveen discussing such topics, now we are not only discussing, we actually understand them!!!

In saying this, there is a difference between Near Field's and Far Fields. I know you already know this stuff.

This is such a step forward, its perhaps the most thrilling step forward I have ever experienced! Not because I know whats possible, because I can see what our wonderful future may hold!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org