Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[tinman]

If so, rate, time, inductance, resistance, reluctance, etc...

This simple experiment is getting awfully complicated.

We're gonna' need some fancy test equipment...

PW

This is where everything that is really simple,gets turned into something that is unnecessarily complicated.
All you need is a known weight,a capacitor of know value,and a set voltage-nothing more other than the rest of the mechanical setup.
You guys make things so complicated,when in fact,there quite simple test to carry out.

[picowatt]

@ MarkE,PW,verpies-we wont include SF,as he just dosnt know.

My point is this.
We all agree that it takes energy to create a magnetic field<--right?

So with this being understood,i can give good reason as to how and why a PM can do useful work in regards to my experiment.It is all well and good to post fancy PDF's,and text book physics,but now it is time to deal with the real world,and we do this by experiments,as i have done.

In regard to my experiment that i gave SP to carry out(that he disagreed with,although being unable to tell us why). In order for the electromagnet to be attracted,a temporary field of opposite polls must be built around that ferrite keeper. As we know,to build or produce a magnetic field takes energy,and in this case,the energy is supplied by the electrical energy flowing into the coil to build that field around the ferrite keeper. When we change that ferrite keeper out for the PM,no energy is required to build that second field,as it already exist-->that second field is already built. So no energy is needed to temporarily align the magnetic domains within the keeper to create that temporary magnetic field,as it already exist with the PM. This is why a PM can do useful work,as it reduces the needed energy required to create that second magnetic field. No other material you use for the keeper will do this,as all will require energy to create that second field-->!!energy is required to create a magnetic field!!.

Those are excellent points and well stated.  I'll think on them a bit.

I wonder what happens during the second half of the cycle of the full cycle, during which time the tension returns to its starting point?

'Bout done with coffee...

PW 



 

[MarkE]

@ MarkE,PW,verpies-we wont include SF,as he just dosnt know.

My point is this.
We all agree that it takes energy to create a magnetic field<--right?

So with this being understood,i can give good reason as to how and why a PM can do useful work in regards to my experiment.It is all well and good to post fancy PDF's,and text book physics,but now it is time to deal with the real world,and we do this by experiments,as i have done.

At this point my patience is wearing thin because over and over and over, very patiently, and graphically the input energy that matters has been pointed out, as has the fact that the experiment as established does not measure it.  So, no the experiment does not show that the PM performs useful work.  It establishes only that a stronger field can be established, much as the ferrite block allows for a stronger field at higher magnetizing energy cost than a block of wood.

In regard to my experiment that i gave SP to carry out(that he disagreed with,although being unable to tell us why). In order for the electromagnet to be attracted,a temporary field of opposite polls must be built around that ferrite keeper. As we know,to build or produce a magnetic field takes energy,and in this case,the energy is supplied by the electrical energy flowing into the coil to build that field around the ferrite keeper. When we change that ferrite keeper out for the PM,no energy is required to build that second field,as it already exist-->that second field is already built. So no energy is needed to temporarily align the magnetic domains within the keeper to create that temporary magnetic field,as it already exist with the PM. This is why a PM can do useful work,as it reduces the needed energy required to create that second magnetic field. No other material you use for the keeper will do this,as all will require energy to create that second field-->!!energy is required to create a magnetic field!!.

It is a bit more complicated than that, but not much.  You can aid or buck the electromagnet with a permanent magnet.  As I have shown in the current versus time plots, the current versus time under constant voltage drive differs for the three cases.  Three different input energies result in three different spring extensions.

[MarkE]

Indeed.
And we can calculate the energy consumed,and the work that was done on the spring very accurately by using a capacitor of a set value,and with a set voltage,discharged across that coil in both circumstances--as i have done.I used an upside down L shaped pendulum to lift a set weight in stead of the spring. In every test,using many different materials as the keeper,the PM out performed all other materials by a margin of over 80% in calculated energy in regards to the height the weight was lifted.

If you wish to shift to a different experiment then we can discuss that set-up and what you have measured.

[gotoluc]

Maybe my past experiments can help here.

I had found in my mostly magnet motor design that I could increase an electromagnet pull force by adding PM.

I started with a small model that could pull 250 grams on the scale with a power input of 1/2 a watt. So I built a bigger model and could pull 500 grams with the same 1/2 watt input. So then I built a super model that could pull 2,500 grams with the same 1/2 watt input power.

Do we remember what we learned from this?

Luc