Open Systems

[tinman]

When you've settled in on what you want please draw a sketch.

A sketch will isnt possable while im on the road.
All you have to picture is the complete system (as per diagram posted on first page of this thread) in an insulated room.
We are just confirming that all enervy has been accounted for in the form of heat. Like I said, the secondary system dose not effect the primary system.

[tinman]

@MarkE
At this point in time-now we have agreed that energy is conserved in the electrolisis system, can you see any way of returning energy back to the battery with out it effecting the output ofthe system at all?.

[Farmhand]

This is from a previous debate on another thread
Now your thinking, the DWFTTW process appeared to the weak minded as a violation of physics because you cannot get more than what is already there. However their error was in the Energy accounting of an open system and a failure to understand what was there and available to use. You are correct and the rules which apply to closed systems do not always apply to open systems because obviously they are not the same thing.
If I put 1w of electric energy into a resistance heater I will always get 1w of heat out but if I put 1w of electrical energy into a heat pump I may get 5w of heat out. A resistance heater is a closed system and a heat pump is an open system...it's that simple. The critics are simply arguing that all systems must remain closed, they are arguing that the simple resistance heater is the only way of doing things which as we know is pure delusion. Why if they had their way we would have to install our wind turbines, heat pumps and solar panels inside dark closed boxes just to satisfy their twisted notion of reality.
AC

A resistive heater is not a closed system. That is obvious because energy leaves the system, if it was closed no energy could enter or leave the system. Very simple.

In reality there is only one closed system which is the entire Universe (meaning everything that is) within the Universe there is no "real" closed systems, however we can consider an almost closed system as a closed system based on input alone and disregard the energy leaving open the system if we want, but what does that achieve.

Any system that allows energy to enter or Leave the system is open by definition.

Anything with an output or an input is an open system. Generally we put energy into a system to get energy out, regardless of the ratios they are all open systems. A closed system is useless because there can be no output by definition, unless your are contained within it that is, then it can be useful to you.

Cheers.

[profitis]

Wether a system is open or closed has nothing to do with the propensity toward thermodynamics laws violations.spontaneous concentration of heat is itself banned regardless

[tinman]

Mmm
Mark has seemed to have disappeared.