Permanent magnet motor

[Jim36]

Hi all,

I'm new to the OverUnity forum and relatively new to the search for alternative / exotic energy sources. My background is electrical engineering (mainly power distribution) and in the summer last year I built a few variations to the Heins Thanes Bi-toroid transformer which, from my findings doesn't give any increased output or 'overunity' (though it did give me some great hands on experience with transformer design and seeing the law of conservation at work!). I have since been working on some ideas of my own and would like to have one dissected by more experienced veterans of the subject before going ahead and producing a prototype. 

The idea is to replicate the magnetic field produced around a wire carrying DC with a permanent magnet. From this it might be possible to create a homopolar motor? My thoughts are that this type of magnet should produce right angled force / movement when placed in another straight flux lined magnetic field.

The magnet would be a cylindrical tube shaped with the flux contained inside the material (flux orientation following the path of the circumference). One problem stands out to me at present, the cylinder/tube magnet is unlike copper wire which is diamagnetic so they will be some attraction between the cylindrical tube magnet and the magnets creating the external stator field. This might be overcome with setting the cylinder magnet exactly centre between the stator field magnets giving a net zero attraction (same pull each side).

I have tried quite a few magnet companies and most said it wasn't possible or it would need large investment to produce this type of magnet from Neodymium, I found one company that said they can produce these magnets made from FeCrCo for $430 (2 No).

I have attached some drawings to help understand the concept. Please comment and point out anything that stands out.
Thanks
Jim

[shylo]

Hi Jim, Are you saying your tube  magnet will have 1 pole on half of the tube and the opposite pole on the other half?
artv

[Jim36]

Hi Artv,

No the tube will have no poles in the air as such, just flux in a circular direction, I've attached another drawing showing the magnet cut down the centre, this would then create 4 poles exposed to air, when this is placed back together the field is continuous (circular) within the material. Another example to clarify this is a toroidal shaped transformer used in engineering today, the main flux path is circular within the toroid with little flux leakage.

Jim

[ayeaye]

In my simple mind i don't understand how it works, why should it rotate at all? When the magnetic field is circular, then maybe something can rotate inside that cylinder magnet perhaps, but i'm not sure that it is so circular.

I too tried to make a bi-toroid transformer. I got a deflection yoke core, and a microcontroller, and i also have two small toroid cores. But then i figured out that it likely will not work, or then all thing becomes very complex. So i decided to make some much simpler experiment, using a simple coil with the same core. Finally, all the magick is in induction. The magnetic field and finally the voltage induced in the coil, depends on the speed with which the initial current increases, not on the strength of the current, should be so by equations too. And no, this voltage is not useless, when used in the right way. And i still think that this experiment worked. This is the thread here about that experiment http://overunity.com/14925/negative-discharge-effect/#.VVttSzr52rM .

What concerns the permanent magnets, what i could figure out is that there should be some kind of asymmetry in the magnetic field, to have overunity. And i did a simple experiment as well, which i think also worked, but the excess energy was not enough for continuous rotation. The discussion about that happened to be in this thread here http://overunity.com/15711/a-possible-violation-of-the-law-of-conservation-of-energy/#.VVtv6Tr52rM .

[Jim36]

If you take a look at the attached picture it shows why a copper wire rotor will rotate in a stator magnetic field (shown by the blue arrow), what isn't shown in this picture is the actual magnetic field around the wire that interacts with the stator magnetic field to produce this motion, it instead gives you flemings left hand rule for motors which is a way of understanding direction of force with direction of current (red arrows) in a wire within the magnetic field. See also picture of a magnetic field around a wire to understand the concept of rotation for my design. The asymmetrical component of the motor is the cylindrical/tube magnet.

Finally, all the magick is in induction. The magnetic field and finally the voltage induced in the coil, depends on the speed with which the initial current increases, not on the strength of the current, should be so by equations too. And no, this voltage is not useless, when used in the right way. And i still think that this experiment worked. This is the thread here about that experiment http://overunity.com/14925/negative-discharge-effect/#.VVttSzr52rM .

'I think' what you are talking about is well known in electrical engineering/physics and called faraday's law of induction. EMF is a product of the rate of change of the magnetic field and the rate of change of the the magnetic field is directly linked to the rate of change in current. The equation is E= - dØ/dt (EMF = change in flux/time). Some times this is exploited as in the 'joule thief' circuit, this works on the basis of switching the circuit off which will make the magnetic field collapse very suddenly producing a high voltage across the inductor with a proportionally reduced current so power stays the same. I will have a look at the links have pasted to see whats going on.

Jim