Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[MileHigh]

Is F*D "force x distance?"  I am having difficulty understanding what you are saying there.

I am talking about what is typically observed in a pulse motor type of situation.

For how it's happening, a simple test that anybody can do:

Suppose you pulse a fixed coil and it produces a north field that is facing the north end of a movable magnet:   

[S-coil-N]   [N-magnet-S]

So naturally the magnet will get pushed away when you pulse the coil.

Now, what happens if you have the coil open circuited and on your scope, and you pull the magnet away?

My expectation is that you will see an EMF generated by the coil that is opposite the applied voltage of the battery that you used in the first part of the test.

The conclusion:  When the battery pulses the coil, and the magnet gets pushed away, then the moving magnet will induce EMF in the coil that effectively reduces the voltage applied across the coil.  Even though you can't see it on your scope, it's still happening "inside" the coil.  That internal EMF opposing the battery voltage will reduce the rate of current rise when you energize the coil.  WOW - two things are happening simultaneously inside the coil.

All of this should be in accord with Lenz's Law.

MileHigh

[verpies]

I am back,

As promised here is the schematic for Itsu utilizing four 4047 CMOS chips as a pulse sequencer.
The major changes are the values of ZD1 and ZD2.

The rotor shaft sensor signal can be anything in the CMOS input range: an Optoreflector, a digital Hall sensor, 555 Timer, 4047 Astable or even your Function Generator isolated by an Optocoupler.


P.S.
If L2 or R3 overheats due to high duty cycle of the "Discharge C2" signal, then this can be solved with two additional 4017 chips but I did not draw it now, since I do not know if it will be a real problem.

[gotoluc]

I am back,

As promised here is the schematic for Itsu utilizing four 4047 CMOS chips as a pulse sequencer.
The major changes are the values of ZD1 and ZD2.

The rotor shaft sensor signal can be anything in the CMOS input range: an Optoreflector, a digital Hall sensor, 555 Timer, 4047 Astable or even your Function Generator isolated by an Optocoupler.


P.S.
If L2 or R3 overheats due to high duty cycle of the "Discharge C2" signal, then this can be solved with two additional 4017 chips but I did not draw it now, since I do not know if will be a real problem.

Welcome back verpies

Thanks for the new circuit.

Luc

[itsu]

Yes, thanks verpies,

i will use one of the 555 timers which are already on board to drive the 4047's.
For C2 i will use a 10uF/400V cap, R2 will be back to 10 Ohm (now 3.3 Ohm).

Itsu

[tinman]

Is F*D "force x distance?"  I am having difficulty understanding what you are saying there.

I am talking about what is typically observed in a pulse motor type of situation.

For how it's happening, a simple test that anybody can do:

Suppose you pulse a fixed coil and it produces a north field that is facing the north end of a movable magnet:   

[S-coil-N]   [N-magnet-S]

So naturally the magnet will get pushed away when you pulse the coil.

Now, what happens if you have the coil open circuited and on your scope, and you pull the magnet away?

My expectation is that you will see an EMF generated by the coil that is opposite the applied voltage of the battery that you used in the first part of the test.



All of this should be in accord with Lenz's Law.

MileHigh

The conclusion:  When the battery pulses the coil, and the magnet gets pushed away, then the moving magnet will induce EMF in the coil that effectively reduces the voltage applied across the coil.  Even though you can't see it on your scope, it's still happening "inside" the coil.  That internal EMF opposing the battery voltage will reduce the rate of current rise when you energize the coil.  WOW - two things are happening simultaneously inside the coil.

What is WOW is how you guys leave things out to suit your needs.
As you and Poynt have clearly stated,when an external magnetic field is induced into the inductors core,the inductance value will go down,and that will result in a current rise each pulse-easily tested and seen. But i see you left that part out in your above quote--how convenient  So any kind of small gain that might be had by the magnet moving away(using your example) would be more than offset by the fact that the core !at the same time! now has that PM's field induced into it,which will result in a higher current draw.

So your own laws MH are arguing against your reasoning.


Brad