Study of Generator Coil Acceleration Under Load (moderated)

[wattsup]

@gotoluc

Below is an image I grabbed from your first video showing the position of the magnet versus the iron core.

What I am just curious to know is what was the process you used to finally decide to position your spinning magnet at that particular location? I think everything starts with that one consideration since nothing in the other variables could compensate for any loss of impress caused by a potential faulty fixed magnet/core position, maybe faulty is not the right word, maybe saying less favorable would be more appropriate.

Another way of asking this is..... how sure are you that the magnet-to-core position is the optimal position for this type of experiment where the initial premise is that the core is receiving the maximum degree of magnetic change in order to impart that change to the coil? If that one consideration is optimized, would that optimal performance leave any room for any acceleration under load or is the acceleration due to the fact that the magnet to core relation was not optimized and hence any other change on the core now has room to influence the drag level on the prime mover. Again hard to explain. hahaha

Instead of making a video I am just posting another image showing a simple pair of magnets in attraction mode so their N/S poles are facing out secured on a simple drill shaft and a compass. With these two simple toys you can very  quickly do micro tests for core to magnet positioning. The magnet is very easy to turn with your fingers and see some pretty crazy differences in effects when held horizontal or vertical to the compass or when the compass itself is held horizontal or vertical to the magnet. You soon realize that one or the other relative to the Earth plane also makes for some very curious and contradictory effects.

I also use this on my drill to test other effects in angular spin. I use another pair as this but having both poles out as north and another with both out as south. Very easy tools for magnetic effects.

The final diagram I have made is to show something else. I have a very bad feeling that when a round magnet passes in front of a round core and coil, the actual passage generates more cancelled impress then the impress that can actually produce output, output which is only occurring because through this very complex magnet to core to coil interchange that is happening on on such circular geometries.

The diagram shows several coil geometries relative to the same magnet passage. The second group shows ways of keeping the magnet only on one half of the core/coil so that the massage can generate a more "directional" impress that would favor more "directional" output, versus the standard method we use where the magnet arrives at the coil/core from the left side first, (ok - good), then splits to the top and bottom of the coil (bad - causing extreme cancellation) then leaving them on the other side (good - but not great).

The coil/core #7-8 and #9-10 are the ones I believe will be the most productive because each only receives one constant and directional impress so the cancellation should be held to a minimum.

This is just theory right now but I wanted to put this out there in case others are consider any line of experimentation where such considerations could be easily added as tests in the same process.

wattsup

PS: Hope this is not tooooooo of topic.

[verpies]

I don't know where the confusion is

Probably from the lack of a diagram.  As you probably heard - a picture is worth a 1000 words.

Did you have Diag.5B in mind ?:

[gotoluc]

Did you have Diag.5B in mind ?:

Close but the below is the exact setup of metering of the DUT

Now it should be clear for anyone to build one of these for their own accurate input power tests.

Luc

[gotoluc]

@gotoluc

Below is an image I grabbed from your first video showing the position of the magnet versus the iron core.

What I am just curious to know is what was the process you used to finally decide to position your spinning magnet at that particular location? I think everything starts with that one consideration since nothing in the other variables could compensate for any loss of impress caused by a potential faulty fixed magnet/core position, maybe faulty is not the right word, maybe saying less favorable would be more appropriate.

Another way of asking this is..... how sure are you that the magnet-to-core position is the optimal position for this type of experiment where the initial premise is that the core is receiving the maximum degree of magnetic change in order to impart that change to the coil? If that one consideration is optimized, would that optimal performance leave any room for any acceleration under load or is the acceleration due to the fact that the magnet to core relation was not optimized and hence any other change on the core now has room to influence the drag level on the prime mover. Again hard to explain. hahaha

Instead of making a video I am just posting another image showing a simple pair of magnets in attraction mode so their N/S poles are facing out secured on a simple drill shaft and a compass. With these two simple toys you can very  quickly do micro tests for core to magnet positioning. The magnet is very easy to turn with your fingers and see some pretty crazy differences in effects when held horizontal or vertical to the compass or when the compass itself is held horizontal or vertical to the magnet. You soon realize that one or the other relative to the Earth plane also makes for some very curious and contradictory effects.

I also use this on my drill to test other effects in angular spin. I use another pair as this but having both poles out as north and another with both out as south. Very easy tools for magnetic effects.

The final diagram I have made is to show something else. I have a very bad feeling that when a round magnet passes in front of a round core and coil, the actual passage generates more cancelled impress then the impress that can actually produce output, output which is only occurring because through this very complex magnet to core to coil interchange that is happening on on such circular geometries.

The diagram shows several coil geometries relative to the same magnet passage. The second group shows ways of keeping the magnet only on one half of the core/coil so that the massage can generate a more "directional" impress that would favor more "directional" output, versus the standard method we use where the magnet arrives at the coil/core from the left side first, (ok - good), then splits to the top and bottom of the coil (bad - causing extreme cancellation) then leaving them on the other side (good - but not great).

The coil/core #7-8 and #9-10 are the ones I believe will be the most productive because each only receives one constant and directional impress so the cancellation should be held to a minimum.

This is just theory right now but I wanted to put this out there in case others are consider any line of experimentation where such considerations could be easily added as tests in the same process.

wattsup

PS: Hope this is not tooooooo of topic.

Hi wattsup,

It's just tooooooo much to read.  Please ask one question at a time. I've lost interest in this effect some years back and even more now that I've been able to test it with a quality core like Metglas.

I'll answer your first question:
The reason the core is placed on the end of the magnet is for mechanical reasons. For example is it was on the opposite end it would cause much more pull on the shaft of the Dremel tool which causes flex and at a certain rpm can cause vibration aka harmonics.

Luc

[verpies]

Close but the below is the exact setup of metering of the DUT

All is clear now.
This system is accurate if the caps are huge (yours are) and have low impedance at all the frequencies generated by the DUT.
The brush noise of a universal motor can contain frequency components well in the MHz region.