MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[tinman]

You are so utterly hapless and confused when it comes to this stuff sometimes Brad, it just blows my mind how you can't think for yourself and achieve a "normal" level of understanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit

LC circuit

An LC circuit, also called a resonant circuit, tank circuit, or tuned circuit, is an electric circuit consisting of an inductor, represented by the letter L, and a capacitor, represented by the letter C, connected together. The circuit can act as an electrical resonator, an electrical analogue of a tuning fork, storing energy oscillating at the circuit's resonant frequency.

That is correct MH.
It is an LC circuit--a system,where two!!yes two!! components are working together.
Neither the capacitor or inductor will resonate alone.
Your bell will not resonate alone.
Please apply a pulse to either an inductor or capacitor alone,and show us all here how it resonates.

Who is the hapless and confused  one MH?.

Brad

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=16589.msg485787#msg485787 date=1465104924]
 

Since I tried to give you the real definition of an ideal torque and you rejected it, then I will say your comments about torque are completely idiotic.  Not using the proper mechanical variables of torque and angular velocity for your "explanation" is completely idiotic.

Your definition of an ideal torque,was poor at best,and reflects against your very limited mechanical abilities. There dose not have to be any angular momentum in order for there to be a torque applied to an object or mass.

That's another completely idiotic statement because I use a flywheel as a convenient example, that's all, and I am expecting your brain to be able to process that and understand it.  Obviously, I was expecting too much from you.

As i said before,torque dose not only apply to things in motion.
You failed at giving an accurate example of an ideal torque.

No, it is not based around an "ideal energy source."  That is a meaningless term and if you are going to talk about this stuff then you have to use the proper terminology whether you like it or not.  Failing to use the proper terminology and demonstrate a mastery over basic energy concepts makes you look like a fool.

A fool is some one that uses unreal devices--such as you have used in your question,to justify real world result's.
You used a voltage source that dose not exist,and one you cannot draw a circuit for to explain the actions of the current flowing through the circuit,and then make claim that you can answer this question correctly.

Yes, there is no such thing as an "ideal energy source" and if you stated that in a physics or engineering class everybody would look at you like you were from Mars.  Failure to think one more time Brad.

There is also not such voltage source that is used in your question.
Guess you got kicked out of class as well.

In the realm of what we are discussing you have the following:

Ideal voltage source
Ideal current source
Ideal torque source
Ideal angular velocity source
Ideal force source
Ideal linear velocity source

This is the realm of MHs wonderland,as none of the above exist.

That is the deck of cards laid out for you.  If in the future you continue to use the term "ideal energy source" you will look like a complete idiot.

It is you that is the idiot MH,as this is what you claim to have in your ideal voltage source.
You are still yet to show anyone here a voltage source that dose not contain energy--and no,it just dose not disappear as you said earlier on in this thread.

Failure to think again Brad.

I don't know what profound points or questions you have to make about an LC resonator.  NOT an "inductor resonating" Brad, you have to use the proper terminology whether you like it or not.

This silly attempt to explain your self resonating bell and wine glass was answered in my last post.


Brad

[tinman]

Here is your "big intellectual hurdle" that you must get over Brad to not stick out of the Electronics 001 class like a sore thumb:  "Resonance" has two meanings.  Now is that so hard to get into your head?  There is the same old "driven resonance" that you always refer to and are stuck to like some poor hapless fly on flypaper.

Here is the second definition put into some easy-to-understand sentences:



Now, here we go:











Which one is it going to be?

MileHigh

Presumably you are talking about an ideal LC circuit vs. an LCR circuit that will ring down.  There is nothing special there.

No,i am not talking about MHs fantasy land--we are talking real world applications.
There is no such thing as an ideal LC circuit,nor is there such thing as a self resonating bell or wine glass.

An LCR circuit will resonate by itself.  So will a tuning fork, a bell, and a wine glass.

No they will not.
They will oscillate for a short time,where each oscillation become smaller,until the oscillations stop.

Nothing will resonate by it self,there needs to be an outside force acting upon the system in order for resonance to occur.

For starters, keep this in mind, "An LC circuit, also called a resonant circuit, tank circuit, or tuned circuit, is an electric circuit consisting of an inductor, represented by the letter L, and a capacitor, represented by the letter C, connected together. The circuit can act as an electrical resonator, an electrical analogue of a tuning fork, storing energy oscillating at the circuit's resonant frequency."

Once again-in the hope it will sink in,the LC circuit is a system--two components,where the energy oscillates between the two energy storage systems. The bell and the wine glass are single entities,and no resonance occurs,as there is no second component to form a resonant system.

An LC circuit is a resonant circuit that acts as an electrical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

An LC circuit will not resonate without an external force acting upon it--this is fact.
An LC circuit also is a system that consist of two components--not !one! component like your bell and wine glass.

A tuning fork is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

A tuning fork is not a system,it is a single component.
A tuning fork will oscillate at it's resonant frequency,but it will not resonate alone.
System-->a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network; a complex whole.

A wine glass is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.

Once again,a wine glass is a single component--not a system.
It will not resonate without an outside force acting upon it.

A bell is a resonant system that acts as a mechanical resonator that resonates at the resonant frequency and manifests the phenomenon of resonance.[/b]

Once again,the bell alone is not a system,and will not resonate by it self.

Now, does that register in your brain or are you just going to stick to the single definition of resonance that you understand and completely ignore the second definition of resonance that is actually the more basic and fundamental definition of what resonance really is?

Do you know what a system is MH?--it is not one single component.
Did you watch the !very easy to understand! video i posted for you ,explaining the difference between oscillating at a natural resonant frequency,and resonance?.

Everything i have posted in regards to the difference between oscillating at a natural frequency ,and resonance is absolutely correct,and you do not get to change the meanings or definitions to suit your need to be correct.
You are flat out wrong,and once again,your inability to decipher the difference between oscillation at a natural frequency,and resonance just go's to show how lost you are.

Feel free to show us a capacitor or an inductor resonating by it self


Brad

[MileHigh]

So Brad, we had this huge MASSIVE discussion about the wine glass and you are telling all of us that nothing sunk in?  Nothing sunk in at all?  So you are just a big blank slate right now, on autopilot.

It's like you time warped and missed it all, and here you are, a lost soul.  I wish that I could say that it is all simply unbelievable, but it is clearly believable.

[tinman]

So Brad, we had this huge MASSIVE discussion about the wine glass and you are telling all of us that nothing sunk in?  Nothing sunk in at all?  So you are just a big blank slate right now, on autopilot.

It's like you time warped and missed it all, and here you are, a lost soul.  I wish that I could say that it is all simply unbelievable, but it is clearly believable.

As usual MH,you have it all ass about.
Your wine glass saga and answers were not agreed upon by anyone other than your self.
Even you mix up between !stiffness! and elasticity was tried to be explained to you by many on that thread.

I do not know how you keep coming up with--!!everyone but you agree's with me!! MH,but that is far from the truth. No one agreed with your wine glass explanation MH,and that is a fact that can be backed by the posts on the thread it self.

You have a hard time defining the difference between an object oscillating at it's natural resonant frequency,to that of an object being in resonance within a system.

You blatantly disregard every single link and video i post,to show you the meanings of the two, only so as you can try and maintain your nonsense.

Nothing will resonate on it's own MH,as it is not part of a system that is needed in order for resonance to occur.

Every single link and video i have posted regarding this matter,all say the same thing,and define the difference between an object vibrating at it's natural resonant frequency(like your bell and wine glass),and when that object resonates,or becomes resonant.
Although this will just once again ,fall on deaf ear's,here is another link,in the hope's that you will finally understand the difference.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/resonance-info.htm

Quote: Resonance, An object free to vibrate tends to do so at a specific rate called the object's natural, or resonant, frequency. (This frequency depends on the size, shape, and composition of the object.) Such an object will vibrate strongly when it is subjected to vibrations or regular impulses at a frequency equal to or very close to its natural frequency. This phenomenon is called resonance. Through resonance, a comparatively weak vibration in one object can cause a strong vibration in another. By analogy, the term resonance is also used to describe the phenomenon by which an oscillating electric current is strengthened by an electric signal of a specific frequency.

Surly it cant be this hard for you to understand MH.


Brad