An Electric-Motor Turning An Electric-Generator Which Powers The Same Motor ?

[memoryman]

First objective 'should' be to demonstrate the concept; this has never been done, suppression claims notwithstanding.

[lancaIV]

If we do /not know the price of invention components we do /not know the later electricity production price !

The next solution is to deliver first a "fixed output power"- later a "variable output power"- system !
The second needs a input/output controller( more expensive) .

If we know the electricity production price we know the commercial system competivity !

Mass production let all components prices fall, conditioning: "no rare" materials used and
all technical product processes are commercial limitation-and license free .

After dis-/advantages avaliation :  Motor/Generator RPMs  6000 

[lancaIV]

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=127&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19790215&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1
                 Let us -partial- translate this german text by google :


In a conventional generator the field strength B, the length of his head with L and the current flowing through is denoted I, the result is the size of the counter force F, which is exerted on the conductor and thus to the shaft to F = BLI.


If the field strength of the electrical device 2B, the length of its conductor L is and only one current durchfiiesst(flows), corresponds to the thickness of the half of the current flowing in the generator current, is the force exerted on the armature force F '= 2B x L x 1 = LI.


2 This shows that the force exerted on the armature of the electrical device and hence on the driving shaft power is equal to the counter force, which is exerted on the shaft from the conventional generator. The force is generated to act in a direction such that it compensates the reaction force. A stronger current flow provides the required torque to the shaft. Therefore, the shaft and thus the armature are moved on and generates electric power.


In order to flow current through these half the electrical device, half the generator voltage is required. So with is 1/4 of the power generated is lost to engegenzuwirken(compensate) the deceleration force. The remaining 3/4 of the energy generated or slightly less of them are for outdoor use are available.


If the field strength of the electrical device is a multiple of the field strength of the generator, for example, 5-fold, it is necessary that 1/5 of the current generated flows in the electrical device to generate the compensating force. 1/5 of the generated voltage is required for the current flow. Thus, 1/25 or 4% of the energy produced is consumed in the electrical device, while 96% or less of them are for outdoor use are available. In this way it is not necessary that any electrical energy is introduced from an external source in the generator according to the invention for generating electrical energy.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------                                                             Peswiki         
                                                  Directory: Rotoverter


"Induction motors operate by locking the rotor to the rotating magnetic field of the stator. Most loads do not require the magnetic field to be at full strength to achieve the desired mechanical power output. Lowering the input voltage to the motor with a Variac is a simple test anyone can do to prove this principle. Most drill press motors will run quite well on 60 volts input. Cutting the Voltage in half also cuts the current in half, which cuts the Power input by 75%! Once the motor is Power Factor Corrected for this voltage, the motor will appear to run on NEARLY NOTHING!!!!
                                         And of course, that is the point.




                            http://www.instructables.com/id/RotoVerter/
https://www.google.pt/search?q=rotoverter&client=opera&hs=PPi&tbm=isch&imgil=UKsfcN98LgG_pM%253A%253B6Jd_ZnofTJmgdM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.instructables.com%25252Fid%25252FRotoVerter%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=UKsfcN98LgG_pM%253A%252C6Jd_ZnofTJmgdM%252C_&usg=__rAIHf4qPqm5hePkmAjkjfM26zbs%3D&biw=1024&bih=609&ved=0ahUKEwiv3vbyzMHOAhUDKMAKHdeFDmcQyjcILw&ei=F8GwV-_2MYPQgAbXi7q4Bg#imgrc=_
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          Now the important difference between the Mukherjee-invention and the rotoverter :
the rotoverter-concept has a rotating rotor/stator-motor coupled to a rotating stator/rotor alternator


Mukherjee described a rotating rotor/stator motor(=generator) and a non-self-rotating electrical device=Steuereinrichtung(~ Controller) coupled to the motor-shaft !


http://physics503.one-school.net/2008/06/law-of-electromagnetic-induction.html
                                                     Faraday,Lenz,Fleming

[lancaIV]

An "Outlook 2025" :
http://www.schillergy.com/pdf/schiller-energy.pdf 
5 KW scooter DC motor( or AC alternator)

"active parts"

Copper 0,9 Kg :
alternatively : http://www.centuryelectricmotor.com/Motor-Doctor-Article.aspx?LangType=1033&id=779
                      cheaper aluminium-production process  http://europepmc.org/patents/PAT/US6551476
Iron 1,4 Kg :
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/10/plastic-bonded-.html
Researchers at Lund University (Sweden) have developed a technique for making magnetic components in electric motors from plastic bonded iron powder (PBIP) that can cut aggregate production cost in half and nearly double the output of the motor.
Molding melted plastic and iron particles also enables full freedom of form. Besides higher quality and greater freedom of form, the technique  reduces the number of production steps from about 60 to only a few

Magnets 0,29 Kg :
http://dailyfusion.net/2013/10/iron-nitride-magnets-will-make-electricity-generation-cheaper-and-greener-22428/
"A costing model puts neodymium–iron–boron used now at $60 per kilogram and our material at about $10 per kilogram," said David Matthiesen, associate professor of materials science and engineering at Case Western Reserve and the project's principal investigator.

[lancaIV]

An "Outlook 2025" :
http://www.schillergy.com/pdf/schiller-energy.pdf 
5 KW scooter DC motor( or AC alternator)

"active parts"

Copper 0,9 Kg :
alternatively : http://www.centuryelectricmotor.com/Motor-Doctor-Article.aspx?LangType=1033&id=779
                      cheaper aluminium-production process  http://europepmc.org/patents/PAT/US6551476
Iron 1,4 Kg :
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/10/plastic-bonded-.html
Researchers at Lund University (Sweden) have developed a technique for making magnetic components in electric motors from plastic bonded iron powder (PBIP) that can cut aggregate production cost in half and nearly double the output of the motor.
Molding melted plastic and iron particles also enables full freedom of form. Besides higher quality and greater freedom of form, the technique  reduces the number of production steps from about 60 to only a few

Magnets 0,29 Kg :
http://dailyfusion.net/2013/10/iron-nitride-magnets-will-make-electricity-generation-cheaper-and-greener-22428/
"A costing model puts neodymium–iron–boron used now at $60 per kilogram and our material at about $10 per kilogram," said David Matthiesen, associate professor of materials science and engineering at Case Western Reserve and the project's principal investigator.

How fast the rotational system shall work ,which output-voltage : 6000 RPMs,12000 RPMs or 24000 RPMs ? DC , AC mono/polyphase

How high in costs are then voltage modifying transformer

http://www.powerguru.org/planar-transformers-are-essential-for-truly-efficient-electrichybrid-vehicles/
The final thing to mention is the dreaded 'C' word: COST! For some time now planar transformers have been disregarded as being too expensive. Contrary to popular opinion, the costs have significantly reduced in recent years through cheaper material costs, as the market grows, and improved manufacturing techniques. It is common for a 5kW planar transformer to cost in the region of $23 nowadays, and in volumes of 100k+ prices below $10 per piece are easily achievable. Moreover, in the 2kW-30kW power range, the use of pre-formed copper 'lead-frames' in single and multi-turn forms can achieve virtually any desired turns ratio at low cost, allowing rapid design iteration and ultimately improved time to market.


Acceptable !

Untreated motor/generator bearings works 20000 hours (full load) by 3000 RPMs

motor/generator coil winding : https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20010710&CC=US&NR=6259347B1&KC=B1
Although this embodiment has been described in relation to an exemplary device such as a transformer, the claimed invention may equally well be utilized in other types of electrical devices where internal heat is a problem, such as motors, modulation transformers, etc. The size of the transformer is not of concern, it may vary from a small transformer used in switching power supplies to power transformers used in electrical distribution systems. Further, the frequency of the electrical current within the devices to be cooled is irrelevant, e.g., 60 cycles to 400 cycles operate the same thermally. High frequency transformers have higher copper losses due to skin effects. This additional heat may also be removed by the thermally conductive strip as set forth in this invention.

    When applied to electrical motors 30, as shown in FIG. 5a, pieces of thermally conductive strip 16 are placed between windings of the motor 30 or interleaved into vertically stacked motor laminations 32, as shown in FIG. 5b. The internal heat from the motor laminations 32 and windings 36 is conducted from the interior of the motor 30 to the outer portions where the heat is then dissipated through the motor case 34 to ambient atmosphere.


system material weight (Schiller scooter motor 3000 RPMs 2KW/Kg based) for each 1 KW output
(linear calculation,ultra-low friction treatment http://www.bufo.ru/eng.htm  or similar and nanocoating )
and F1 motor/generator /F2 "controller unit" 1/2 magnetic field force relationship

  3000 RPMs :   ( 0,5       x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg /KW                  after 20000 h full load bearings change     or treated bufo.ru NUFM:  after 80000 h
  6000 RPMs :   ( 0,25     x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg /KW                           10000                                                                                                  40000
12000 RPMs :   ( 0,125   x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg /KW                             5000                                                                                                  20000
24000 RPMs :   ( 0,0625 x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg /KW                             2500                                                                                                  10000

   

Shall the system work permanent (8766 hours/year) or
periodically and by fixed output power or variable output power :
winter permanent for heating and  rest periodically ;
only some hours chargetime per day 
et cet ...?)


Some years later combination with http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acsenergylett.6b00029
                                                                      (monoatomic or diatomic gold nanocoating ?)

At first the LAUNCHPOINT Halbach array motor numbers does impress ,but calculating down the 7hp/1,4 lbs and 8400/7800 RPMs teste results to 3000 RPMs let us reach 3KW/Kg,less more impressive !


http://www.google.ch/patents/US8264314  http://www.google.com/patents/US20110241349


                            I wrote some days before about a 6000 RPMs system dis/advantage avaliation:
                                                                  6000 RPMs :   ( 0,25     x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg        per KW-output


   and this f.e. are 2,5 Kg (~ 0,5 x 3 x 1,5 ~ Mukherjee 3000 RPMs version ) transformed material   
                                               and the industrial costs ea.

             https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/80mm-high-toruqe-400w-dc-permanent_1954847364.html?spm=a2700.7724857.0.0.aFo06o


                                                               


Clearly the system can also work under 48000/96000 RPMs conditioning,the wished work hours and bearings change are the only barrier !
Something like a "magnet battery",portable.
                                                                                       untreated                                                  treated      bufo.ru NUFM   bufo.ru GEO+
24000 RPMs :   ( 0,0625     x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg /KW                             2500                          hours full load                     10000
48000 RPMs :   ( 0,03125   x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg /KW                             1250                                                                       5000            12500
96000 RPMs :   ( 0,015625 x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg /KW                               625                                                                       2500              6250     

For comparision
Dr. Pavel Imris calculation of his electric generator (older version)weight :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=9&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20120315&CC=DE&NR=102010044865A1&KC=A1
first KW 11 Kg,each KW more 3,5 Kg !   production costs: 32 Euros/Kg 

               Next step for the Mukherjee-generator development:
                    there is a need of a starter -soft or hard drive(r) ! 
 
Low RPMs = by hands/body                                                                               High RPMs: battery or flywheel +  electric motor /mechanic

Industrial Mukherjee-turbine range starter:  http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/concept-compact-twocycle-cogenerating-pistondriven-turbine-to-deliver-60-efficiency.html


for portable devices ?


2016 power density limit : http://phys.org/news/2016-07-electricity-salt-three-atoms-thick-membrane.html

Now it is to demonstrate the working principle of the Mukherjee-device !
A 100 W output generating assembly will be good enough to show the potential !

first step to final TARGET :
                                   10 KW/5 Kg/100 US$ each motor/generator unit

  if                       6000 RPMs :   ( 0,25     x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg        per KW-output
and                   12000 RPMs :   ( 0,125   x 3 x  1,5 ) Kg /KW

                                       10 x ( 0,125 x 3 x 1,5)/10 KW
to reach the 10KW/5 Kg: http://www.ourenergypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/130-Electrical-Energy-Innovations.pdf
Induction Coil Coating Increases Generator Output by One-Third
–Coating the induction coils of generators with a proprietary material increases their output by one-third using the same amount of fuel.

         the   10KW/5Kg/100 US$ motor/generator unit will be at first a 12000 RPM-system
                                           TARGET 2:    1 Watt for 1 Cent

12000 RPMs : untreated bearings full load work      5000  hours
                      bufo.ru  NUFM treated                       20000
                      bufo.ru  GEO+                                    50000            ~ 5 years permanent

12000 RPMs  10KW/5Kg/ 1000 US$ motor/generator unit electricity production price:
                       with GEO+                   1 KWh < 1 US$ Cent
                       untreated                               < 1 US$ Cent   

12000 RPMs   10 KW/50 Kg/ 1000 US$ motor/generator unit electricity production price :
                             with GEO+                  1 KWh < 1 US$ Cent
                            untreated                                < 1 US$ Cent

12000 RPMs     1KW/5Kg/100 US$ motor/generator unit electricity production price :
                            with GEO+                   1KWh > 1 US$ Cent              +/-  2,5 US$ Cent
                            untreated                               > 1 US$ Cent             +/-   4,0 US$ Cent

12000 RPMs  10 KW/5Kg/ 100 US$ motor/generator unit electricity production price :
                             untreated                    1 KWh < 1 US$ Cent (bearings change and costs included)

                                             TARGET 1:          1 KWh for 1 Cent

                  The "1 KWh for 1 Cent" is easier to reach than the "1 Watt for 1 Cent" !

With or without Gurus : http://www.agragamiglobal.com/2.html

Where is ultra-/super-precision needed,where not !
Rare-/special material or not !
High- down to low-/no-skills !
Patent-saved or "open source" the technology/materials(important for industrial mass production) !

Parts list,deliverer .                 3-D-CAD-plan ? Fee ? Free ? 3D CAD-2-CNC-2-CIM-Printer


                        "1 KWh for 1 Cent" competition(production price,not selling !):
                                                                    wind
                          http://aveuropa.net/index.php/the-energy-converter
                                                                   solar
http://aveuropa.net/index.php/stromerzeugung-mittels-solarzellen-aus-polymerwerkstoffenmanagement