inertial propulsion with gyroscope

[woopy]

Hi all

I am now trying to better grasp the "why" of the "something's lost" in the Fiala horizontal inertial machine.

Here i replicated the Eric Laithwaite 2 pivots experiment, which shows that there is no weight loss when a gyro is naturally precessing (which was already known), but something else is happening, perhaps a "mass transfer" along the spinning axle

https://youtu.be/jD_Q_J4GcQ8

What do you think ?

Laurent

[conradelektro]

Laurent, great video, what a nice setup! And you are very fast when building something.

I found a good explanation of the gyroscope forces: http://www.cleonis.nl/physics/phys256/gyroscope_physics.php and http://butikov.faculty.ifmo.ru/Applets/Gyroscope.pdf

My interpretation of your video: what the layman expects to be a weightloss goes in fact into a circular movement of the arm. In other words, when the gyroscope is up (what looks like a weight loss) the force (which keeps the gyroscope up) translates into a force that turns the arm. And slowly this turning force is diminishing (the arm goes back into balance) when the gyroscope spins down. And this is not for free. The power you put into spinning up the gyroscope is slowly dissipated into turning the arm while it spins down. (All the friction losses make it very complicated. I ignored friction in my explanation.)

This is still "wonderful" because a spinning of the gyroscope is turned into a circular movement of the arm. The interesting part is that the spinning of the gyroscope and the turning of the arm are both "angular moments". Therefore conservation of moment is not violated.

Yesterday I finally got my new stepper motor drivers https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B06XSD5XPR

https://www.dfrobot.com/wiki/index.php/TB6600_Stepper_Motor_Driver_SKU:_DRI0043 Good explantion of the TB6600, but the code example confuses the fact that the TB6600 is driven with OptoCouplers, active = LOW if wired as in the document.

I could install them on my contraption, but the first tests have to wait till next week. I am NOT fast when building something.

Greetings, Conrad

[woopy]

Hi conrad

Thank's for compliments.

Now i have looked in the Prof Lewin gyro lecture.

The problem with all these gyro lectures and explanations, is that they generally speak of  gyros , most of the time suspended bicycle wheel on one side or totally gimballed system) .

No one is trying to explain the "DOUBLE inline PIVOTS " of Laithwaite.

So in the one sided suspended bicycle wheel, there is ONE single pivot, that is the point where the string is attached to the axle of the wheel. And of course the weight of the wheel spinning and precessing does not change at all but the gyroscopic torque maintain the wheel momentarily more or less horizontal (nutation) and induce a vertical rotating movement to the wheel (precession)

The explanation of the phenomenon is that the weight (mass) of the wheel seems to be transferred right on the pivot by the gyroscopic torque of the precessing wheel. So nothing new here.

In my video this is not at all the same system. It is a "seesaw"  system where, on one side of the seesaw the gyro when  not spinning, is a dead weight located and suspended at the end of main arm by a pivot, and is counterweighted by another fixed dead weight on the opposite end of the arm.
The system at full stop is perfectly balanced and the main arm stays horizontal.

Now if we accept that the weight of a spinning and precessing bicycle wheel is located (by gyroscopic  torque) exactly on the string pivot, we should also accept that on the seesaw system, the weight of the spinning and precessing gyro,is also tranfered and thus  located exactly on its pivot.

So when the seesaw double pivot system is in precession, we should expect that the main arm of the seesaw, SHOULD STAY HORIZONTAL, because everything is balanced exactly as if the gyro would not spinn at all and stays "deadly" suspended.

But it is not the case, when the gyro is spinning and precessing it seems that the gyroscopic torque (if it is it) does not transfer the weight exactly on the pivot, but under certain circomstances it is able to  transfer the weight (or mass) elsewhere and very probably beyond the pivot axle in direction of the seesaw center.

It is why the system is momentarily unbalanced and the gyro side lift up.

It is what,  i suppose , Laithwaite called a mass transfer.( not sure)

This mass transfer is first (when the gyro spins fast) , beyond the pivot, and then gradually (when the gyro is slowing) moves in direction of the pivot and finally when the gyro approach the stopp, on the center of gravity of the gyro which now pendels vertically under the pivot. ( so the pivot is now vertically exactly above the center of gravity of the gyro) and the seesaw is horizontal and balanced again.

Another time there is no weight loss at all, no antigravity here, but something else.

And if we stay on the general  gyro's explanations with one pivot (or gimballed ) and a bunch of vectors we will probabbly miss "something" of great interest, because with one pivot it is impossible to detect if the mass is transferred elswhere (if it is) than the pivot center.

And this "Something" is probably  what make The Fiala device work and the Laithwaite seesaw lift up, and also very probably a part of why Laithwaite could lift the BIG (20 kg) wheel with one old wrist and why a suspended bicycle wheel with a very long string beginns orbiting in space and much more.

Laurent

[conradelektro]

Laurent, thank you for explaining the difference between usual setups of a gyroscope and your setup. I was not aware of that.

I played a bit with the TB6600 stepper motor drivers ( https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B06XSD5XPR  ) and can confirm that they allow excellent control of the stepper motors. Everything is fast enough to control each and every step and still go fast.

One needs a TB6600 driver and three pins on the Arduino for every stepper motor. But the TB6600 driver only costs about EUR 14.--.

If one uses two different power supplies or two different sets of batteries (one for the Arduino and one for the TB6600s and stepper motors) the Arduino is shielded by optocouplers, which is proper engineering (to avoid electronic interference).

A TB6600 driver can drive very strong stepper motors up to 4 A per coil. The stepper motors I am using at the moment only need 0.5 A per coil, but I want to use stronger ones later on for my better gyroscopes. The TB6600 can limit the power to the coils in increments from 0.5 A to 4 A, which is handy. It can also do multi stepping up to 32 intermediate steps, which is not useful for this project but allows very smooth stepping in other applications.

I am not advertising the TB6600 but it was difficult to get a reasonably priced and still useful stepper motor driver. Building one based on a driver chip is too tedious and would cost more than EUR 14.--. It is also a strange requirement to control each and every step. Usually one wants that the stepper motor driver does a series of steps independently (like the Adafruit Motor Shield V2.7).

One can not use the Adafruit Motor Shield V2.7 for this project because the control of each and every step of a stepper motor is very limited (too time consuming, about 2 ms per step). See this post http://overunity.com/17573/inertial-propulsion-with-gyroscope/msg518684/#msg518684

Greetings, Conrad

[woopy]

Hi conrad

are you always on the topic ?

I go slowly forward too, but i make further experiments trying to isolate the property of those things

https://youtu.be/qyqyX7jgjZU

greetings

Laurent