Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment

[F6FLT]

Okay, good. Now it looks like that the bifilar coil operates with a much different self capacitance value when you measure its 2330 kHz resonance. In that case all the 4 winding ends are floating and I think the 703 uH self inductance cannot be influenced by the 55 nF capacitance.   When you drive the bifilar coil from the generator as per you schematic, the 55 nF is inherently connected into the circuit. 
This is because the 55 nF is between the two windings but not across any one of the bifilar windings, ok?
The 2330 kHz resonance should be a parallel resonance for any one of the windings, coming from the 703 uH and a 6.63 pF self capacitance for any one of the windings.
This 6.63 pF is in parallel with the 703 uH winding, I calculated from the normal formula C = 1/(L*ω²).   
What do you think?

Gyula

I think it's an interesting idea, very likely correct.
When I simply add 15 cm of wire to the end of a coil wire, at the center of the coil, the resonance frequency shifts by 60 KHz. When it is at the periphery it shifts by 120 KHz. This means that the capacity viewed by the open ends of the coil plays a decisive role in the effect as you suggested.

As the two wires are electrically coupled by 55 nF which is a low impedance at 2330 KHz, and are magnetically coupled because they share the same magnetic field, they must act as if they were only one wire. And indeed I observe the same effect with my monofilar coil.

So now I should be able to make a LTspice model of the bifilar coil.

Another point: when I slide the probe diametrically on the coil, the electric field is maximum near the center, then decreases and cancels out somewhere around the middle (the middle in terms of wire length, because this point is closer to the edge than to the center), then increases again with phase inversion when approaching the periphery but it reaches a final amplitude significantly lower than that in the center.
It seems there is a stationary wave.

It could be interested to design a coil where the lower resonance frequency meets the higher. This could lead to strange effects (I will try with my future LTspice model if I succeed).

[ayeaye]

F6FLT, why do you have to make an LTspice model? If there is overunity, LTspice never shows it. Or you have to change all the calculation, in effect you have to write your own simulation.Because this doesn't happen between components. one cannot separate components, like capacitance is everywhere. And it may participate in the very basic process, in the very equation of induction, which just isn't entirely the same as written in LTspice.

I mean, feel free to do whatever you want of course, i just wanted to say that LTspice doesn't model unknown processes, it has equations in it in a way that it can only model what has been known.

[F6FLT]

Ayeaye, I am well aware that modeling software cannot reveal or manage unknown processes. But until a solid experimental evidence of the contrary, there is no overunity in a bifilar coil, therefore it is modelizable with LTspice. A transmission line also constitutes distributed capacitance and inductance and it's model has been around for a long time.

What is experimental evidence? A reproducible protocol that any individual or independent team can implement, and that must have been implemented by several to achieve consensus on the fact. And the strength of the evidence must be proportional to the extraordinary nature of the proclamation. For OU, the least necessary is a looped device. We don't have it.

If you really believe that you are on the right track, you should do everything possible to complete the process by a looped device. On my side, from my last experiments I only see evidence that a bifilar coil obeys common laws of physics and even of electronics. Nevertheless I don't consider that the case is closed. I have yet some ideas to explore, especially in the field of displacement currents in dielectrics of coils.

[ayeaye]

For OU, the least necessary is a looped device. We don't have it.

No, making a looped device is absolutely, completely wrong. We research a natural phenomenon, not  a device. Maybe some succeeded to spin it the way that it is researching a device instead of a phenomenon, but it's completely wrong. When we research  a device, we get an evidence about the device, not about the phenomenon, which may be all the way misleading. If there is one way to make it wrong, then that's making a device.

Looped device, then all my work about measuring power, it's completely useless? Because why, we make looped device, it will work forever, it's that simple, there is nothing to do. All is useless when taking an assumption that doesn't help to get the result. So that makes it much simpler, why bother, why not drink rum instead? That's a real clown logic, but then i really like rum, and it's jolly as well.

Transmission lines, yes, they have some inductance and some capacitance, but the problem is that transmission lines have only a certain amount of inductance and capacitance, and the model is only for that, also only tested for that.

Can you perhaps give a screenshot, of voltages on the coil and on the resistor at resonance?

[F6FLT]

...We research a natural phenomenon, not  a device...

Non sequitur. I know that and I agree. The device is only needed to prove that the "natural phenomenon" allegedly found, is really OU.

I have just finished the LTpice model. For reasons of symmetry, I have split the 55 nF capacity into two 27.5 nF capacitors "Cp" (p for "parallel"), the 6.63 pF coupling the ends of the coil into two 3.6 pF capacitors "Cs" (s for "series", with a small correction of the value), and added 4 capacitors "Cg" (g for ground) of 1 pF to each end of the wires to simulate the capacitive coupling of the coil to the ground. The value of 1 pF is not at all critical. I had to finally adjust the coil inductance that I had roughly evaluated, to 630 µH.

The left side is when the generator is directly connected to the coils. The Cs capacity plays therefore almost no role. The resonance frequency is the lower, 28 KHz, depending mainly on the Cp capacity (Cp1+Cp2).

The right side is when the generator is weakly and capacitively coupled to the coils. I choose 0.01 for the mutual inductance coupling factor, it's not critical. The Cp capacity plays almost no role. The resonance frequency depends mainly on the Cs capacity. Cs is easily influenced by the hand or any added conductor, like my connector that connects the coil wires. The resonance frequency is the higher, near 2300 KHz, depending mainly on the Cs capacity (Cs1+Cs2).

As we can see, all the things that have surprised me until now are perfectly modelized, without any need to introduce new phenomena.