Newton's Magnets

[Low-Q]

@ Tinman

The best part of these experiments is not whether it works or fails, but what is learned.
.........

Totally agreed. Learning is important.


Using neos in close approximity of a weaker ceramic magnet is a problem. This problem has already been addressed earlier in this thread. What you can do to compensate for this, is making a smaller diameter for the part where the ceramic magnets are fixed, so you extend the gap between the statorfield and the rotorfield.
Too far apart, and you will add the two fields from the left rotormagnet and the statormagnet, repelling the right hand rotormagnet even more. This aready happens before the rotormagnets are facing eachother. So if you perhaps place several smaller statormagnets as an arch, and makes sure there is a balance between repelling and attracting forces in the 90° rotation in advance of the statormagnets end, you will have a different result. Perhaps closer to a running motor.
So doing adjustments to cancel repelling and attracting forces at one place, will enhance repelling forces another place in the design you have now.


I think this rotary design can be a few steps closer to a selfrunner if you do modifications, as suggested with the arched statorfield. Just have in mind that two of the magnets enhance the field on one side, and that can cause the other field to be too much repelled, or too little (starting to attract). However, firstly, the most important thing is to gain a net positive torque even if the rotormagnets at some places counterforces rotation, the other forces has to be greater.


Maybe it even goes backwards. I allways think both forward and backwards when designing. Thinking like that helps me to understand more. Asking, what determine direction? Can it go backwards as well as forwards? What does the statormagnet want to do? What if I fix the rotor, and let the statormagnet go, what will happen?


Vidar

[telecom]

To see a short video on the ACTUAL SUBJECT of this topic.
            click
https://youtu.be/1_CrU7M46S4
       or for a similar design click
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q

Also see the attached PDF files below.

       floor

Just want to note that in the youtube video magnets are parallel to each other,
but in a dailymotion - they are perpendicular to the shield magnets.
Why and how this shield works is still puzzling to me.
I can only guess that the shield transforms linear forces into the rotational
ones, which in turn being absorbed by a frame.
If you can, please clarify the above mechanism.

[Floor]

If I may be admitted back into this topic after showing such very bad behaviour

@ Lumen

Your observationshave a good deal of validity.

In the rotating design, we are not creating precisely equal conditions
on each side of the neo magnet.  There are significant differences in the
fields when one is repelling under compression rather than  like the other
attracting with expansive fields.

A possible solution... create more nearly identical field conditions (although inverted to one another in the vertical plane) on either side of the shield.

See the PDF below

Split and then flip one half of the shield magnet.

note. This will also change the force vector direction upon the (now an array),
of shield magnets, into a torque force.

                  floor

[lumen]

@ Floor

Looking at your PDF is making me wonder..... I bet if I put that into the simulator, it's going to tell me that there is no change in forces on the outer magnets with or without the shield magnets.
That would be interesting because if the actual response is not as calculated then something is missing.
We will see what happens.

[lumen]

So the results ?

Without the shield magnet the right magnet has a force of +65.3 Newtons and the left is also a -65.3 Newtons.
With the shield inserted the right magnet has a force of +61.2 Newtons and the left is showing -60.8 Newtons.
This is the result for Neodymium magnets and I am sure the results are different using ceramic magnets.

I think the results may be changed to something closer to that of ceramic magnets by adding a some iron to the magnet faces.
This would result in the repelling forces shifting somewhat toward attraction as the forces increase.(maybe not exactly the same but similar)
Possibly adding something like ferrite that could have greater thickness might yield a better curve for the desired action.
Or just a thin Neodymium magnet on the back of a ceramic magnet might yield the same action but with more power!

There should be more testing in this area.