Simple to make Hilden-Brand style motor

[Nali2001]

Hi there Ergo.
Yes a magnet on a normal transformer will indeed shift the working curve. And cause less possible field fluctuation due to the always present field of the magnet. But that would only be negative if the field of the magnet is always-there on the output core side. In the case of this valve thing, the field of the magnet is not present in the output core section when input is off. Only when the coil is on, is the field of the magnet directed to the output core side to acts as a 'free' field 'source' alongside the field from the input coil. I am with you that once in a dynamic mode you start moving the field of the magnet that you very likely will be paying for it, since it is a 'push pull resistance' for the normal working of the coil. The question is will the pay be less then the gain? I can not give an answer to that since in a dynamic mode I find it hard to see a change when the magnets are added.

The gent who build the small Hildenbrand replication would be me.
And indeed I did not really see a gain in rpm or a real drop in input with the 'right sized' magnets. Although I must say that there was this test where I added magnets which were too big but I used them anyway, and once added I did notice a rpm gain, which makes me believe that at that point the magnets were indeed being switched and caused an rpm increase, only thing was that the input also went up... So it is still all somewhat unclear. But I need to redo some test on that one because I soon will have somewhat better circuitry and hv dc power supplies.
So we'll see what happens.

I know you guys don't want to hear this (the truth is painful) but a magnet boosted transformer can never work any good.
It will have even worse efficiency than any regular transformer.
Why is this so.

Well, it's simply that any magnet inserted into a transformer circuit will shift the B/H working curve of the ferromagnetic material.
It might seem like you get four times the output from the device in static mode but you actually only get the same out as if you had
used twice the core area for the coil and scrapped the magnet.
In dynamic mode you repeatedly have to force the shifted B/H curve back past zero all the way to the other end. This takes just as much
power as you gained by inserting the magnet... But wait....it gets even worse. When you insert a powerful neodymium into the transformer
you actually force the material close to saturation when switching it on/off and this causes a lot of material loss on every pulse repetition.
The losses is a lot higher than a regular transformer that is working safe away from being saturated.
There you have it. A magnet boosted transformer will always perform lesser than a regular transformer. No BS.

Regarding the Hilden-Brand motor there is still no reports other than his own words on overunity. And these reports changes from day to day.
A while ago he told everybody that it took 1x1" magnet to reach overunity. Now he's telling us it takes 2x2" magnets.
Far back in the past it just took small 0.5" magnets to reach overunity in his early machines. http://keelynet.com/energy/hildenbrand.htm
Because of these irregularities in his reports I strongly believe he is not telling ut the whole truth or perhaps he's just a case of self-deception.

A while ago a gent here built a small Hilden-Brand motor and posted several very good videos on his tests.
He could not see any overunity going on. He tried both small and larger magnets at various speeds and loads at no success.
I believe this is telling us the truth about Hilden-Brands motors.

But I do encourage you to build a fine motor to really see if there is any overunity to collect, because we will never see a report from Hilden-Brand.

[Ergo]

It nice of you to spend some time and actually build the Hilden-Brand motors. We are all interested in the outcome in some real world testing.
If you build another Hilden motor you should focus on a three valve type using a long array of magnets that make room for a long and deeply wound coil.
This is how Jack build his motor. But I don't know how important it is to follow this guideline. I'm happy as long as you make these fine tests.

I know how the flux interacts in a Hilden transformer. But it doesn't matter that the permanent field isn't present in the output coil when it's turned off.
One still have to pay equal amount of input power when redirecting the field through the output coil. It's all about the B/H working point and there is no work around.

Hi there Ergo.
Yes a magnet on a normal transformer will indeed shift the working curve. And cause less possible field fluctuation due to the always present field of the magnet. But that would only be negative if the field of the magnet is always-there on the output core side. In the case of this valve thing, the field of the magnet is not present in the output core section when input is off. Only when the coil is on, is the field of the magnet directed to the output core side to acts as a 'free' field 'source' alongside the field from the input coil. I am with you that once in a dynamic mode you start moving the field of the magnet that you very likely will be paying for it, since it is a 'push pull resistance' for the normal working of the coil. The question is will the pay be less then the gain? I can not give an answer to that since in a dynamic mode I find it hard to see a change when the magnets are added.

The gent who build the small Hildenbrand replication would be me.
And indeed I did not really see a gain in rpm or a real drop in input with the 'right sized' magnets. Although I must say that there was this test where I added magnets which were too big but I used them anyway, and once added I did notice a rpm gain, which makes me believe that at that point the magnets were indeed being switched and caused an rpm increase, only thing was that the input also went up... So it is still all somewhat unclear. But I need to redo some test on that one because I soon will have somewhat better circuitry and hv dc power supplies.
So we'll see what happens.

[i_ron]

It nice of you to spend some time and actually build the Hilden-Brand motors. We are all interested in the outcome in some real world testing.
snip

Ergo,

I shared your concern with the motor/transformer but to my mind the motor works.

The material that I have shared to date has all been static tests... what of a dynamic test?
Here is a short video of a dynamic test which I had been reluctant to post as it is a bit amateurish...

Never the less it answered my questions... is the valve actually switching? is the flux once switched
holding back the rotation?  how does the power of the coil as versus the coil magnet combination
compare?

So this is a old rotor that I had constructed some time ago pressed into service with the first cast
iron valve. It didn't have much speed or power which prompted the above questions. I reworked the little motor with an arm and a spring on the end. This provides a load that the forces must overcome
and a visual indication to show if the bar becomes demagnetized enough to return to the rest position.

Here is dramatic proof of the valve in operation. Without the magnets, the 'coil only', has not enough
strength to move even the slightest... even a finger under the arm and a slight lift to alignment causes
NO lift at all. 

Yet what a difference with the magnets installed! It snaps in directly (and at full alignment opens
another switch to open the circuit) and on power off, immediately returning to the rest position.

This behavior is directly in keeping with published graphs.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=5prfWVc--dc

Ron

[i_ron]

snip

This behavior is directly in keeping with published graphs.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=5prfWVc--dc

Ron

K, left out a key piece of info... this is at 12 volts (DC)

R

[nwman]

i_ron,

What was the mesurments of the power input between the two tests?

Tim