Stirling Engine

[joegatt]

Hi Gary.

I'd hate to dampen your enthusiasm, but I myself am very sceptical about over-unity in electrolysis. Ordinary electrolysis is only about 2% efficient. Industrial electrolyzers may well go up to 80% efficiency but that is hard to obtain. And even harder still is getting the conditions right to enjoy a short bout of "cold fusion". However you are right in observing that there is heat in electrolysis that is usually lost.  Combining a stirling with an electrolyzer may be a good way to recover some lost energy ... but not much. As far as I know, Stirling engines are only 30% efficient.

The rotary you describe looks a lot like the Cylonepower machine.  On the other hand what I am working on is a rotary DISPLACER, and looks very different. Now I don't know the mechanics of the Cyclone, but it looks like it has double acting cylinders with their hot end on the inside and their cold end on the outside. I don't know anything about their fluid cycle and I suspect this device is not strictly speaking a stirling machine.


Regards
Joseph

[resonanceman]

Hi Gary.

I'd hate to dampen your enthusiasm, but I myself am very sceptical about over-unity in electrolysis. Ordinary electrolysis is only about 2% efficient. Industrial electrolyzers may well go up to 80% efficiency but that is hard to obtain. And even harder still is getting the conditions right to enjoy a short bout of "cold fusion". However you are right in observing that there is heat in electrolysis that is usually lost.  Combining a stirling with an electrolyzer may be a good way to recover some lost energy ... but not much. As far as I know, Stirling engines are only 30% efficient.

The rotary you describe looks a lot like the Cylonepower machine.  On the other hand what I am working on is a rotary DISPLACER, and looks very different. Now I don't know the mechanics of the Cyclone, but it looks like it has double acting cylinders with their hot end on the inside and their cold end on the outside. I don't know anything about their fluid cycle and I suspect this device is not strictly speaking a stirling machine.


Regards
Joseph

Joseph

I am  not  even a little interested in   electrolysis
If the  system  makes some  HHO  that is ok with me  .,........it will  revert back to water  when it is cooled enough .

This  forum       
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/board,104.0.html

Is all about  replicating  a    car  that  runs on water .
We are still at step 1   ......but it is  looking promising 

A few people  have  got  small engines to turn  over  using   only  water  as fuel   and  a  spark  for heat .

Anyway ......... the   spark  looks like an idea way to  get heat into  a sterling engine .



Sterlings  can  be as high  as 90 %  efficent .......but that takes  some doing .   



I have never   heard of this  cyclonepower    engine      .
I would not  use double acting  cylinders . .....   no way to  get  lubrication in  between ..........also  it is very poor thermally   if   you  have hot and  cold  that close together .


The   engine  I described   was  just  off the top of my head ....... 
I  used  to spend  alot of my free time    trying to   design  engines
Learning  how to make a rotary  sterling took me about a year .


gary

[joegatt]

So Gary,  it turns out that you too were interested in rotary displacer stirlings! Looks like we're both thinking on similar lines. Did you keep any photos that you can share with this forum? I still haven't figured out all the details on mine.

Regards
Joseph

[resonanceman]

So Gary,  it turns out that you too were interested in rotary displacer stirlings! Looks like we're both thinking on similar lines. Did you keep any photos that you can share with this forum? I still haven't figured out all the details on mine.

Regards
Joseph

Joseph


Sorry    don't  have any pictures .

I  havn't thought  much about sterlings  for  quite a few years ..........but years  ago  they were almost all that I thought  about .

Designing a   rotary sterling was a  major goal  ........it  was  very  hard and took  a long time .
Looking back   it should of  been  easy .
I was looking at one part at a time
With sterlings   it is  the whole system that matters .

That is  why I said that  any time you have one piston following another by 90  degrees  you  have a sterling .
The  system    has less volume  when most of the  air is in the hot cylinder 
It has more  volume  when most of the air is in the  cool  cylinder
That is all that  it takes .

About efficiency   ........ have you noticed that the most efficient  sterlings   have  heat  collectors  in the  ducts between the cylinders ?    Aluminum  tubes  are  often  used for this .

As the  hot  air leaves the hot cylinder  it   contacts  the   heat collector
It looses heat  as it   passes through  the  heat collector . ......  the result is   cooler  cool cylinder

The  air  picks  up  the  heat again on its way back to the hot cylinder .
 
The   heat collector  must  be  large enough to have a   temperature gradient  along its length . 






One reason  I  lost interest  in the  sterling was because I found  a  different engine on the net .

It was called An  Entropy  engine ........
It was simple   it had a  piston in a cylinder
on  top of that was a cylinder  about  twice the size .
In this larger  cylinder  was a  paddle that  rotated .

It  was  the speed of the  rotation  that  caused   the engine to run
The  paddle  was connected to a  a pinion  gear 
The pinion  ran of a  rack  gear  connected to  a cam follower .

The  can  was designed to  for maximum   speed difference   for the paddle .

The   concept  seemed to be that it took less energy to  use rotation  to  compress   the air in the cylinders    than  it takes to compress it with  a piston
So  when the  paddle  was spun  fast ......the piston  was pulled up .
When the   paddle was moving  relatively slow  the air  rushed back to the center and pushed the  piston  back down .


The  website is  long gone .....but   when it was up they had   quite a few   reports  about  what  big companys said about it
I remember  GM    said that they  couldn't use it .    The  admitted it  worked  .......but  said it would take a motor the size of   a bus to power a car .
The  fact that they  admitted  that it  worked   was a revelation to  me
It put me  on  the OU  track

One of the main   things that people said  about the motor  was   " there is  to much  parasitic drag "

At the time I had   been into   designing  engines  as a hobby for  around 15 years .
I tried to  email them  to let  them know how to  reduce the  parasitic drag .........NO reply .


I never    built  a  test model ..........   not enough money . 


gary

[resonanceman]

Going  back to  what I said about the sterling

It is the  whole system that  matters .

Same thing  with this  engine

The  inventor   of  the Entropy engine  said that the   paddle worked  similar  to  a rotary  air compressor ............but  a  rotary air compressor  will not work . 

He was both right and wrong .

A rotary air compressor  will not work in  its normal mode .

It  WILL  work in  a closed loop  in a pulse mode .

My  plan  was to  drive  a compressor  disk   with a gears  off the   crankshaft
The   disk would run about  10 times as fast as  the  crankshaft .


Unlike the  sterling  this  engine  requires valves
It is the  valves that  make this  work

The  valves   decide  if the  engine is  in  compression mode or expansion mode .

In  compression mode  the  valve     going  TO   the    compressor disk is open .
The  air  in the cylinder will be sucked    to the disk .,
If   all the  air  that the disk  can pull   has already  been  pulled  the dislk will   maintain  that  condition
It  will take  SOME energy to maintain .....but not as much  as if it was  compressing more air .

In the expansion mode the valve between  the output of the    compressor  and the   cylinder is open . 
There  has  to be enough  space  behind  the   commpressor  to hold  most of the air in the system . .........this  space is  equivelent   to the hot  end of a sterling .
Heating this  area more should   provide  extra power .

Once the  expansion  valve is open  the air rushes  back into the cylinder  and pushes  the  piston back down .



Pressurizing  the  whole system  should make it  stronger . 


I thiink of this engine  as  a  turbo  sterling


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If you  are like me ,  for the next few hours  you are going to have  smoke  coming out of your ears from thinking to much .


 


gary