Giantkiller moves forward into Full Heterodyning.

[CTG Labs]

One form has a finite divergence the other does not (forms loops).

EM, you are saying that a magnetic field can form a closed loop and support itself in space and so exist seperate to any mass?

Hmmm!


D.

[EMdevices]

BUT! How can the magnetic field or an electric field exist in space?

Dave, I'm not sure what you guys are driving at or what the argument is specificaly, but I will say this,Ã, Ã,  electric and magnetic fields can exist in space.Ã,  Ã, Ã, 

If the argument is to understand how they can exist at some fundamental level,Ã,  I would say it's a distortion of the "aether" or spacetime continuam, sort of like a strain or stress in a elastic medium that can support shear strains as well. (not a liquid)

If we are trying to understand electromagnetic propagation, then yes that's what happens,Ã,  the E fields generate the H fields and these generate E fields and so on, but the original starting point is currents moving on a conductor, so it starts with moving charges.Ã,  Ã,  If you're thinking that we can just have STATIONARY E fields and H fields, without any charges or currents, then that would not be possible,Ã,  they have to propagate to exist, these are dynamic fields, not static.

EM

P.S.Ã,   That's the miracle of the Maxwell equations Dave,Ã,  the man discovered that the previous EM equations were not complete and consevation of charge was violated, so he added a term and made the equations more consitent, but then he discovered that mathematicaly they showed an electromagnetic wave can propagate with the speed of light equal to 1/sqrt(u e), which are just quantities measured in a lab, the permeability and permitivity.Ã,   So you can imagine the excitement the man had when he realized what he discovered.   The Michelson-Morley experiments on the movement of the eather, seemed to disprove it's existance, but whatever you call it, it's there, whether you call it space-time, vacum or whatever, it's the void of space and it has these electromagnetic properties which are captured by the Maxwell equations.

[omnispace]

...Then the Aether was disproven (static aether anyway)...

How about a dynamic aether?  One that creates magnetic fields when it swirls around...B = curl(A)

[CTG Labs]

If the argument is to understand how they can exist at some fundamental level,  I would say it's a distortion of the "aether" or spacetime continuam, sort of like a strain or stress in a elastic medium that can support shear strains as well. (not a liquit)

Hi EM,

Yes, personally I am trying to understand how it can be on a fundamental level.  You say its a distortion of the Aether, so I take it your view is that you do not know the answer to my question either.

It is accepted that these fields exist, but we do not know how.  This is what I am getting at!  Yes, off topic I admit.  But I cannot accept things without knowing HOW.

Your assumption of how they can work is the same as it was when we discovered waves, there must be an Aether, even though it was disproved, we still assume it to be with EM waves!


Regards,

Dave.

[CTG Labs]

...Then the Aether was disproven (static aether anyway)...

How about a dynamic aether?  One that creates magnetic fields when it swirls around...B = curl(A)

Yes!  I guess my point here is that the experts can never explain it and try to avoid the answer by skirting round it.  Rather than admit we don't really know, they pretend not to understand the question and like politicians give an answer which doesn't really answer your question!  No offence to anyone here!


Regards,

Dave.