Power plant idea, NEED HELP WITH THIS!

[tinu]

Ever took a mountain trip with your car? Noticed how difficult is for the engine working at high altitude and low pressure? The engine is designed to work at around 1 atmospheric pressure and the additional energy is not taken into consideration.

Hydrogen is the lightest gas indeed, but it does not know it. It does also not know that it?s air or something else around the pipe. Eventually the pipe itself will float and rise (if light enough) but not the gas inside it.

My point is that no matter if you carry up gases, liquids or solids, the energy spent in doing that is m*g*h. The same amount of energy you may recover by reversing the sense, if no losses.

Tinu

[2tiger]

@Tinu

Ever took a mountain trip with your car? Noticed how difficult is for the engine working at high altitude and low pressure? The engine is designed to work at around 1 atmospheric pressure and the additional energy is not taken into consideration.

No I didn?t. But the reason why the the engine has problems is, because the athmospheric low pressure air contains less oxigen in the same amount of volume and this is of cause not good for the mixture (air-combustion) the engine needs to run properly.

Hydrogen is the lightest gas indeed, but it does not know it. It does also not know that it?s air or something else around the pipe. Eventually the pipe itself will float and rise (if light enough) but not the gas inside it.

The hydrogen does not know that? Then why do you think that eventually the pipe (if light enough) will know this?
One real example for this is the famous zeppelin Hindenburg. It "floated" in the air with a gas mixture inside and one of the gases in this mixture was hydrogen.

Assume that the pipe is open on top. The hydrogen will rise in the pipe, because air (heavier than hydrogen) will "fall" in the pipe and displace the hydrogen to the top.
Other example - Fill some oil and water in a glass and you will see, that the oil will float an the surface.
Indeed the oil will not know why it is swimming on the surface, but it does it anyhow.
Does this causes any losses in the system?  No - it is a "natural" reaction between two elements, though physically explained.


kr
2Tiger

[Pirate88179]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the Hindenburg did not rise up into the air as much as it was pushed up by being displaced by the heavier air surrounding it. Same result, different explanation.

Bill

[tinu]

Same result with oil, which is pushed up by the water?
   
Unfortunately hydrogen and air mix very well. Once the pipe is open, hydrogen is pushed up indeed, but it dilutes very quickly.

Tinu

[2tiger]

Hi all
I think now it?s time for a draft.
There you can see, that the oxigen and hydrogen have particular pipes to the combustion engine.
The pipe(s) are of course close. Otherwise the hydrogen will not burn "clean".

O.K. now we need some energy to bring the to elements to the top.
Assume now for the hydrogen a pipe with a cross section area of 10 cm and a height of 100m, then you have an inside volume
of 0,7853 m^3  X  with a massdensity of 0,0899 kg/m^3 you will get 0,070 kg for the hydrogen. To lift this 100m you will need 0,69 Nm .
For the oxigen, witch has half of that volume and a mass density of 1,429 kg/m^3 =>   0,561 kg, you will need 5,5 Nm to lift this amount 100m.
The total amount of energy needed to lift both elements 100m through the pipe will be round about 6 Nm.
But as I stated before, this energy is already considered in the losses of the combustion engine.
I am sure, that an ordinary carburator needs more than 6 Nm to suck fluids like gasoline or diesel through thin needle-valves, or even the gasoline pump sucking the fluids out af a tank.

I hope that this system becomes more comprehensible.

kr
2Tiger