Meyer's Resonant Charging Circuit Analysed

[z_p_e]

In terms of electronic components, I would see our wfc's as a capacitor in series with a non-linear resistor, not in parallel.

This can not be so.

I have measured the resistance of tap water (I used to make colloidal silver) and found that the water in my area at least is quite conductive....about 1k Ohm in one cup of water with two silver electrodes 1.5 inches apart, and about 1 inch submersion. I have had to always use store-bought distilled water for higher resistance and consistency.

As a minimum, the model has to have a resistor (or inductor) from plate to plate if a significant DC current can flow, and we know it can.

I would suggest that a setup be created (I assume you already have one) and several parameters be tested empirically.

- Frequency sweep
- DC voltage sweep
- Observe Pulse inputs
- etc.

If one truly wants to understand and analyse the WFC, the plate-to-plate element must be modeled and quantified, otherwise there is no hope of getting to the bottom of it all.

Is there any reliable info regarding the construction/value of the chokes?

[z_p_e]

Perhaps this is a start...?

RL = Insulation (dielectric (water) resistance)
C = Capacitance
ESR = Equivalent Series Resistance
ESL = Equivalent Series Inductance
DA = Dielectric Absorption

[Garfield]

Farahday:
  I've been avidly following your posts in all these forums and must say that I have learned a lot and agree with you 95% of the time. Keep up the good work.
   I was around when wet electrolytics were still being used in old tube(valve) radios. Like you said .when  shorted out they were self healing. Their only fault was that they had a tendency leak and then dry out.
   These things were always in an aluminum can with  a small vent hole on top. If you shook it you could
hear the electrolyte sloshing around.
    I am no electronics engineer, but being a technician for many years and being an active "Ham" operator you can say that I am no stranger to resonant circuits.
   Yes, the point that I must disagree with you on is the working of a series resonant circuit.
As you already know, the impedance of these circuits are very low and you will measure zero volts across them. They will also pass maximum current at resonance.
     But if you dig a little deeper you will discover a very startling fact which you are overlooking.
As the voltage across the coil leads the current by 90deg. and the voltage across the capacitor
lags the current by 90deg. you have a phase shift of 180 deg. So that the voltage across one cancels
the voltage across the other giving you zero volts. Notice in this statement that I am implying that
there are two different voltages in this circuit! If you were to take a scope and check out these 2 voltages individually you would find that not only are they equal in strength and opposite in polarity
but they are many times larger than the source voltage!  This is not MY theory but an established fact. These voltages would be infinite if it were'nt for the resistance of the coil. Of course with this increase in voltage you will also get a proportional increase increase in current.
But not to worry.   As the circuit will be drawing this high current ONLY during the time periods of these very narrow pulses then the over-all average current would be quite low (my theory).
There would also be zero current flow during the gating period.
  So if you are trying to get a large break-down voltage across this water capacitor then you must try and get circuit restance, (which is mainly in the coil) to as low a value as possible.
You can do this in several ways:
1:Use heavy gauge wire for the coil.
2:Wind the coil on a high permeabilty core. (A toroid I think would work best)
3: Use a higher resonant frequency so that you will have LESS COIL for the same amount of fixed cell capacitance.
    I was reading someones post last night regarding the TESLA coil. They were wondering why the coil was made with such heavy wire. Now you know.
I also came across an article in an old electronics magazine on "How to Build a Tesla Coil" that can
create a 3 foot arc.  The coil itself was a piece of  3/16 in. copper tubing.
    So now you know why the various builders experience different results for different sizes and spacings of  ss tubing.  The circuit has to be tuned.
   So there you have my 2 cents worth.

Garfield

[locked_in]

I am following these threads with interest as well. Nice to see a bit elevated interest and that fresh thoughts are been brought up.I don't have much to add to this discussion but I like to add this paper on the subject of nonlinearities of water with- and without electrolytes. Also I am noticing the discussion seems to focus entirely on electrical resonance, what about acoustical resonance ?

[Garfield]

Locked-in

Thanks for that pdf document. It's something I will have to read over a few times to get my pea brain
working on some of these theories LOL.
  But seems to be very interesting stuff.
I think the only benefit acoustic resonance would have is that it would release the bubbles from the electrode surface thereby producing more gas. It would be worthwhile trying.
  The only problem being. What kind of mechanism would you use to get these tubes to vibrate at their
resonant frequency? You would need some kind of electro-magnetic device attached to the tubes and then driven by an oscillator tuned to that resonant frequency.  But I'm sure acoustic resonance outside the water would be totally different from in the water (if there is such a thing).
I know some people are working on it..