Meyer type WFC - from design and fabrication to test and development.

[dutchy1966]

Hi All,

Here's a link to an interview with Moray King done by Sterling Allen. IN there he gives his view on where the extra energy in the meyer cell might come from.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Moray_B_King

Also find here a powerpoint presentation from Moray King where among others he explain the meyer cell.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Water_Dissociation_Using_Zero_Point_Energy

Well worth a look if you're not familiar with his work.

regards

Robert

[Farrah Day]

Yes, it should be clear to everyone that we can't get something for nothing, remember "Energy can neither be created or destroyed".

A lot depends on whether or not the process is all about ionisation.  If it is, and efficiency is the issue, then the maximum efficiency we can achieve is 100%, through having a perfect energy exchange with no wasted energy.

But, it might well be possible that we are drawing on the energy from all around us, so we might see what appears to be 200% over-Faraday.  It really doesn't matter to us where this additional energy is coming from as we will still see the result as a reduction of our applied power. All good. However, if we knew exactly how to tap into this 'radiant' energy then we could theoretically at least, vastly increase efficiency. 

The more I learn the more inclined I am to think it is all about ionisation, the electron and some form of radiant energy, rather than pulling the water molecule apart using the electrostatic force between electrodes. 

However, it may well be that the nature of the pulses - the voltage, duration, rise and fall times - all tie in to induce radiant energy absorbtion into our cct.

Its all about keeping an open mind while also keeping your feet firmly planted on solid foundations. I see so many people eager to learn, then in their ignorance being led like a sheep by some first class muppet down blind alleyways and deadends. No one should allow themselves to get side-tracked by idiots and idiot posts - and don't take anyones word for anything without good reason (including mine).

Still much work to be done and always lots to think about.  Check out these links:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/fep01.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tepv21.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tep50pmt.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep01.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/biftest.htm
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/ElectromagneticDev/davidmason/timepump.htm

[Farrah Day]

On page 2 of this thread Tad  (Uncle Fester) wrote:

Hi guys,

Low voltage only repeats the age old process of electrolysis, and thus results in line with Faraday will be seen to this end. Meyer process is high voltage at nearly no current. Took me 6 months of testing to figure this out since I was thinking along the lines of straight DC high current electrolysis. When I had talked with Stan while he was alive he didn't give much information out, although it was clear he was not the main engineer behind the process, but rather his brother Steve was.

My results in a small cell using 1200VDC (Pulsed square wave - or as close to square as you can get at that potential = ). .010 to .015 Amperes of current. Input bounced between 12-18 watts total. Frequency of this particular cell was 42.8Khz, but it has become apparent that frequency does not matter, only that the cell appears to have a particular frequency it will produce gas at. Going above or below this frequency the gas production would stop entirely. This made more sense later as I began to understand that endothermic reactions differ greatly compared to exothermic, and this process is endothermic. The cell always cooled down by at least 2 degrees F when running for 30 minutes or more. This also became frustrating in that when the cell temperature would change, it would stop producing gas. If the frequency was raised it would produce gas again. Which then lead me to believe that it would only work with a feedback loop control to the frequency generator, microprocessor, etc.

My small cell consisted of 6 tubes with 1mm gap, your gap is too large for this process! I tried 3/8 gap since this cell was using that size gap when I used it for standard electrolysis before attempting this replication, and it didn't work.

My results were 200 LPH (Liter per hour) for 12-18 watts, or 16 LPH per watt
Ravi's results were 2.74 LPH per watt

Either result is amazing when compared to high current electrolysis, and even the fact that I was using no electrolyte, but only single pass steam distilled water it should not by standard law have produced ANY gas at all!

I don't have much time to discuss this but I figured this might help you in your understanding of the process. I will try and answer your questions as time permits me.

Tad

It's a shame that he doesn't seem to have looked in lately, as now I'm approaching this stage in my cell development, his post seems all the more relevant.

If your looking in Tad, I'd like to say - after my own tests with deioinsed water- that your post now sounds more impressive than ever.

I have some questions: Were you using any inductors in your set up... what exactly was your set up?

Endothermic (cool cell) would suggest ionisation, but at 15 mA this would give very little gas.

If your still out there Tad, please pop in for a chat.

[Farrah Day]

Ok, I've gone through a bit of a learning process and now, armed with a little extra knowledge and experience, I feel it is time to construct a multicell wfc to specifications more appropriate for high volume gas generation.

My test cells have served their purpose for the time being, but now I want to assemble a unit that will more accurately replicate Lawtons. My large test cell has, afterall a 6mm spacing between electrodes and floating tubes.

In the post from Tad (quoted above), he says he was using a gap of just 1mm.  This is however very small and must be on the very limit of practical construction and indeed performance.  Construction wise, the plates or tubes would have to be quite rigid and not prone to warp, which likely means limiting the overall length.  Performance wise, I would think that there may be a problem with shifting the gas from this tight space and hence a drop-off in performance as the water is insulated from the electrodes by this gas - but I may be wrong.

Tad, didn't reveal much about his set up, other than he was pulsing 1200vdc at 42.8KHz and the cell was drawing just 18 Watts and delivering 200 litre per hour.

My tube arrangement will be designed to fit within the 110mm perspex tube as is common nowadays, complete with the appropriate end caps and fittings.  It will be a multitube wfc, but unlike most, I'm going to attempt to further enhance efficiency with additional floating plates.

I have wound a couple of bifilar inductors and one trifilar to experiment with.  I will design and construct a reliable gas measurement system once my cell is built and it is up an running.

Some people are welding ss wire, terminals and/or their stainless steel electrodes together. I on the other hand will be bolting everything together with ss nuts and bolts.  It should be noted however, that ordinary high speed metal drill bits will not drill through SS - in fact you will overheat them by trying and hardly scratch the surface. Carbide tipped drill bits are what are needed.

Attached is my cell tube configuration. Tubes are 16" long.

[Farrah Day]

Nearly completed wfc. 

Photos show anodes and floating tubes - still to fit cathode bars down the centres. It currently weighs in at 7.5 kgs!

All the anodes are bolted together at the top with small ss nuts and bolts. Threaded ss bars will be linked together once I have fitted them to unit.

Spacing is achieved by cut pieces of rubber bungs used for test tubes in chemistry. This I think will suffice for now, but the weight of the floating tubes add up and so I would want to improve on this if the wfc was to be fitted to a vehicle, where vibration my cause the unit to disassemble itself in use.

I've roughed up all the outer tube surfaces, but it's very difficult to do this in the inners due to the small aperature and lengths. The outer tubes are probably more important anyway, as it is these that will develop the calcium compound layer.

All spacing is just under 2mm, except for between the centre anode and the next inner concentric floating tube, which is about 5mm.