Meyer type WFC - from design and fabrication to test and development.

[Farrah Day]

Kator

Just trying to get my head around things at present.

I found out today that my PSU, once switched off creates a discharge path for my test cell. If instead of simply switching it off, I remove it from the cct altogether my test cell holds more charge for longer.

Today, with my test cell in de-ionised water, I applied 31 volts for just 1 minute. Current reading was fairly stable at 70 mA. With PSU off (but still connected), I recorded the following voltages across my test cell:

Voltage after discharging for 1 min = 1.7v, after 2 min = 1.3v

Now if I do the same test but remove my PSU from the cct, so just leaving my multimeter across the cell, I get:

Voltage after discharging for 1 min = 4.2v, after 2 min = 3.7v. After 5 mins I still have a reading of 2.7v across my cell.

Ok, here's something interesting again.  I repeated the 2nd test, but this time immediately lifted my test cell out of the de-ionised water, only to find this made no significant difference to the voltages.  Hence, my test cell is standing on my work top, out of the water, the PSU disconnected and reading 4.1v after 1 min, 3.6v after 2 min and curiously 3.1 after 5 min. At 10 minutes it still had 2.5 volts across it.

Nothing I could do would discharge it faster than it wanted to go. I short out the plates and watched the voltage rise to the previous level and then continue to drop very slowly at it's predetermined rate.

This is where I'm struggling Kator.  If my capacitor has a voltage across it of 3.5 volts, charged plates shorted via a thick piece of copper wire would surely re-address the charge imbalance almost instantly. But this does not happen...Why?

The danger with large capacitors holding there charge is well known, but the danger comes from the fact that they can discharge through us very quickly at high current. My cell doesn't seem to be co-operating in this way.

I know that charge and voltage are two different things, in that I can have two capacitors reading identical voltages, with very different amounts of charge, but shorting them out means that one will discharge at a higher current than the other. But they will both discharge. Why won't my bloody cell discharge?

For my voltmeter to show a reading again, it must mean there is a difference in potential between the tubes. If this is caused by charges on my tubes, as you say, I must not have depleted them when I shorted the cell. But what makes my cell different to a normal capacitor that would discharge completely?

Could the charges be sitting on the other side of the chromium oxide layer, so somewhat insulated from my attempts a shorting the cell?  If so, how did they get there as this would mean that they have come from the de-ionised water?

At present I'm more than a little baffled by all this... what am I missing?

Tomorrow I'm going to experiment with the cell dry and see if it will charge up the same in air.

[Kator01]

Hey Farrah Day,

Ah I had this feeling, that your systematic approach will pay off even if the results are confusing.
Please tell me ( I am a bloody german missing some words in english ) what is this term cct ?

What you describe here from your experiments clearly shows that part of the charge
is stored in a thin layer on the surface of the cell-plates and the other is in the water-reservoir.

I don`t think you are missing something. Very intersting thing. I always had the idea that the key is the
surface since there the splitting-process occurs.

Now as a next step I would suggest to meassure with one neutral plate against ground what voltage there is in the water after you have removed the active cell-plates. Or if you have a new cell-plates-set - immerge this and measure across the plates  ( in this case I would not expect any voltage ).

What you have found is a clear indication that the remaining charge is concentrated in a very thin layer
on the plate-surface.

What voltage is there across the plates if they are dry after 30 or 60 minutes ( let them dry and do not short them) ?

There must be something happening in this thin layer. I simply do not know. I will ask the scientist I mentioned in my last post.

As a next step I would use destilled water and step up with the voltage until there is a small current in order to find out if there is the same thing happening.

I remember a conversation with this scientist ( Dr. Augustin : http://www.dichtes-wasser.de/ )
where we discussed the purity of destilled water. He said : you want pure destilled water which does not contain any remaining elements - ultrapure water ? You have to destill it 6 times in very special cleaned vessels !

Now, you see, even with one time destilled water you have about 1 to 2 Meg-Ohm inner resistance. This means a lot of remaining impurities.

I would give it a try with 1 time destilled water and try to condition the plates in order to find out if there is forming a layer on the surface. This takes time - maybe weeks.

Another thought : transmutation ?  or a semiconductor-layer forming ?

I will come back soon when I have reached this guy. You can count on this.

Suggestion : write about your findings to Aarons page here http://www.hydrogentap.com/hydrogentap_001.htm

He has a lot of experience  and discovered  a long standing voltage after he shut the cell-power off.
Ask him.

Regards

Kator

[clane121]

Photons? Anyone?

[UncleFester]

Hi guys,

Low voltage only repeats the age old process of electrolysis, and thus results in line with Faraday will be seen to this end. Meyer process is high voltage at nearly no current. Took me 6 months of testing to figure this out since I was thinking along the lines of straight DC high current electrolysis. When I had talked with Stan while he was alive he didn't give much information out, although it was clear he was not the main engineer behind the process, but rather his brother Steve was.

My results in a small cell using 1200VDC (Pulsed square wave - or as close to square as you can get at that potential = ). .010 to .015 Amperes of current. Input bounced between 12-18 watts total. Frequency of this particular cell was 42.8Khz, but it has become apparent that frequency does not matter, only that the cell appears to have a particular frequency it will produce gas at. Going above or below this frequency the gas production would stop entirely. This made more sense later as I began to understand that endothermic reactions differ greatly compared to exothermic, and this process is endothermic. The cell always cooled down by at least 2 degrees F when running for 30 minutes or more. This also became frustrating in that when the cell temperature would change, it would stop producing gas. If the frequency was raised it would produce gas again. Which then lead me to believe that it would only work with a feedback loop control to the frequency generator, microprocessor, etc.

My small cell consisted of 6 tubes with 1mm gap, your gap is too large for this process! I tried 3/8 gap since this cell was using that size gap when I used it for standard electrolysis before attempting this replication, and it didn't work.

My results were 200 LPH (Liter per hour) for 12-18 watts, or 16 LPH per watt
Ravi's results were 2.74 LPH per watt

Either result is amazing when compared to high current electrolysis, and even the fact that I was using no electrolyte, but only single pass steam distilled water it should not by standard law have produced ANY gas at all!

I don't have much time to discuss this but I figured this might help you in your understanding of the process. I will try and answer your questions as time permits me.

Tad

[Farrah Day]

Thanks for that Tad,

I'll bear what you said in mind, but at this stage I'm not worried about pulsing or gas production. I'm currently simply trying to understand how and why my cell is holding the charge the way it is.  Working from the foundations upward I hope to gain a better understanding of the processes involved as I progress.

I'm eager to get pulsing and upping the voltage, etc, but I want to learn to walk before I run.

Kator, 'cct' is just an abreviation we use for 'circuit'. And, your English is much better than many first language English speakers on both this and other forums.

Will do some more tests today an come back later.