Muller Dynamo

[mondrasek]

Nice. Can you estimate the optimal distance?

It is my belief after testing that the optimal distance can be found by feel if you do not have a scope.  As you move the backing magnet towards the back of the coil ferrite you will initially feel repulsion every time a rotor magnet passes by.  As you move too close to the ferrite, the attraction of the magnet to the ferrite will pull the magnet.  It is where the repulsion and the attraction are equal that I was having the best results.  It is pretty clear to feel when the repulsion changes to attraction as the attraction increases quite strongly and will likely pull the magnet out of your fingers the first time.

My guess is that the actual distance will vary based on your core material and dimensions.  In mine, the best location is ~12mm away from the ferrite cores.  The stronger the backing magnet, the stronger the effect.

I also noted a drop in RPM with the magnets in place.  But I have yet to take the required measurements to see if the additional power out is proportional to the increased power in or if it is a gain.

Keep in mind that having high V output is not the ultimate goal.  You need high output power which is Vout * Iout.  So you will need to measure current.  As you know, in a simple transformer you can raise voltage by dropping current and visa versa.  So if you raise voltage you need to check that you did not drop the current proportionally before determining it is a gain.  You could just be trading one for the other.

[chalamadad]

It is my belief after testing that the optimal distance can be found by feel if you do not have a scope.  As you move the backing magnet towards the back of the coil ferrite you will initially feel repulsion every time a rotor magnet passes by.  As you move too close to the ferrite, the attraction of the magnet to the ferrite will pull the magnet.  It is where the repulsion and the attraction are equal that I was having the best results.  It is pretty clear to feel when the repulsion changes to attraction as the attraction increases quite strongly and will likely pull the magnet out of your fingers the first time.

My guess is that the actual distance will vary based on your core material and dimensions.  In mine, the best location is ~12mm away from the ferrite cores.  The stronger the backing magnet, the stronger the effect.

I also noted a drop in RPM with the magnets in place.  But I have yet to take the required measurements to see if the additional power out is proportional to the increased power in or if it is a gain.

Keep in mind that having high V output is not the ultimate goal.  You need high output power which is Vout * Iout.  So you will need to measure current.  As you know, in a simple transformer you can raise voltage by dropping current and visa versa.  So if you raise voltage you need to check that you did not drop the current proportionally before determining it is a gain.  You could just be trading one for the other.

Sorry, I was actually asking for the distance of the coils to the rotor magnets.

Edit: I have not seen ANY effects with added biasing magnets so far.
You are correct, power out is what counts. But the lower the current the less drag you have on the rotor. If you can compensate lower current with higher voltage there is no net gain but you should rather view it as no loss if the rotor speed stays up. If you want to hook up more generating coils then the high current is a speed killer. But there was no transformer in Romeros setup, was there? Remember Thane is speaking of "high voltage coils". Wonder if it is simply multifilar coils he is using.

[xenomorphlabs]

If anyone is close to being in the generated energy range to be at unity or above,
you could try to wind a series bifilar drive coil to bring down the i/p power.
My old coil drew 80mA of current, the series bifilar draws 55mA for the same RPM (!)
That's 70% of the previous i/p power.
You get basically a bigger bang (magnetic flux) out of it to push the magnets. That's why Tesla termed it "Coil for Electromagnets".
This supports also what Slider has been experimenting with.
Hope this helps someone

[chalamadad]

If anyone is close to being in the generated energy range to be at unity or above,
you could try to wind a series bifilar drive coil to bring down the i/p power.
My old coil drew 80mA of current, the series bifilar draws 55mA for the same RPM (!)
That's 70% of the previous i/p power.
You get basically a bigger bang (magnetic flux) out of it to push the magnets. That's why Tesla termed it "Coil for Electromagnets".
This supports also what Slider has been experimenting with.
Hope this helps someone

What is your input voltage? And have you tested both with the same?

If you really save another 30% amperage at the same voltage we can get somewhere. That would mean it's not a bad idea to wind all coils, generator AND drive, bifilar fashion. More fun fiddling with the strands. See you in a month or two. :-)

[mondrasek]

Sorry, I was actually asking for the distance of the coils to the rotor magnets.

Edit: I have not seen ANY effects with added biasing magnets so far.
You are correct, power out is what counts. But the lower the current the less drag you have on the rotor. If you can compensate lower current with higher voltage there is no net gain but you should rather view it as no loss if the rotor speed stays up. If you want to hook up more generating coils then the high current is a speed killer. But there was no transformer in Romeros setup, was there? Remember Thane is speaking of "high voltage coils". Wonder if it is simply multifilar coils he is using.

I have not seen any trend that points towards an optimal distance between coils and rotor magnets.  Still searching for that.

What I have been working towards is finding a distance that shows I have the POWER to self loop, while looking for anomalies along the way.

I agree, low current and high voltage o/p should be optimum.  That is why I think high inductance and low resistance coils are key.

My reference to transformers was only to make sure you understood the relationship of V, I, and power.  I think you will find that your high V coils get dragged down to a much lower V if they are running a load.  So I wanted to make sure you were aware of the voltage drop.  Glad you already knew this.

M.