Roll on the 20th June

[legendre]

Magnets do provide power without a magnet you have no power. Name one electricity generation method that does not involve magnets?

Now where did you get that idea?? There are numerous methods of producing electricity that do not involve magnets! Off the top of my head..

- Electrochemical (batteries, fuel cells)
- Photovoltaic (solar cells)
- Piezoelectric (gas grill igniter)
- Thermoelectric (thermocouples)

And this doesn't even include the several methods for producing static electricity.. You need to think harder about this stuff.

Magnets are not a source of energy, and cannot perform useful work.

-L

[exxcomm0n]

Now where did you get that idea?? There are numerous methods of producing electricity that do not involve magnets! Off the top of my head..

- Electrochemical (batteries, fuel cells)
- Photovoltaic (solar cells)
- Piezoelectric (gas grill igniter)
- Thermoelectric (thermocouples)

And this doesn't even include the several methods for producing static electricity.. You need to think harder about this stuff.

Magnets are not a source of energy, and cannot perform useful work.

-L

@ L

I think you need to look @ production ratios of the examples you listed versus the shaft driven generator. To be honest, you did answer the question with valid answers, just not as economically viable ones.

A magnet in a generator preforms useful work. Even though it creates no energy, it is absolutely essential for energy conversion from motive force to electricity.

A catalyst if you will.

But as to a magnet not being a source of energy, I think you're just looking at it the way necessary to see that facet.

Oh wait! A viable (even if extremely tiny) example is a compass.

It has no energy source outside of it's magnet, and the magnetic fields of the earth.
It will unerringly (given the probability that another locally stronger magnetic field is not present) point North (or NNE if you want to get technical) given time and stability.

Please explain why this is not a viable example.

[legendre]

@ L

I think you need to look @ production ratios of the examples you listed versus the shaft driven generator. To be honest, you did answer the question with valid answers, just not as economically viable ones.

He didn't ask for economically viable methods - he asked (someone) to name "one electricity generation method that does not involve magnets", whilst inferring that no such method existed. Ridiculous.

A magnet in a generator preforms useful work. Even though it creates no energy, it is absolutely essential for energy conversion from motive force to electricity.

No, a magnet in a generator performs a useful function. In physics, the term 'work' has a specific meaning, and should not be confused with the common layperson's definition of the word. This is similar to the situation with the term 'theory', which has a different, specific meaning to scientists than it does to laypersons. 

But as to a magnet not being a source of energy, I think you're just looking at it the way necessary to see that facet.

Well, if you wish to look at magnets in such way as to see them sources of energy, then be my guest - but in the realm of physics, you'd be quite incorrect. That said, I fail to see how this misconception would serve you well, which is why I'm taking time to answer your inquiries.

Oh wait! A viable (even if extremely tiny) example is a compass.

It has no energy source outside of it's magnet, and the magnetic fields of the earth.

Again, magnets are not sources of energy.. you'll get this sooner or later.

It will unerringly (given the probability that another locally stronger magnetic field is not present) point North (or NNE if you want to get technical) given time and stability.

Please explain why this is not a viable example.

How is a pointer, resting in a fixed position, doing any useful work? That's what a compass needle does, correct? It unerringly points in a fixed direction and remains there, unmoving.

Now, you might take your hand and push the needle to some other cardinal direction, and watch it swing back - but in this case, it was you who did the work, the result of which being a small amount of PE stored in the relationship between the compass needle and the Earth's magnetic field. When you release the needle, that PE converts to KE and does useful work, moving the needle back to the N position.

I hope that this clears things up for you.

-L

[Glassglue]

Oooooh let me try this one!

With a perfect compass the needle would not move.  You would move the compass under the stationary needle.  A real compass has friction, etc, so the needle does become disoriented and needs time to re-equilibrate with the magnetic fields of the earth.  In that case there would be a miniscule amount of torque present as a result when the compass was rotated, but in all cases, you are doing the work.

As for magnets being 'useful' in a motor, yes they are.  But I could (possibly) be useful holding a bowling ball three feet above the floor for an hour.  Neither of us are doing any work however by the technical definition which needs to be used here.

[Glassglue]

Damn, L got under the wire first, and better too.  Oh well.