Magnetic Permeability ... I can't find anyone talking about this !!!!!

[Charlie_V]

Does Liquid Oxygen exhibit  ferromagnetic qualities?

Yes I've read it is close to steel - I don't know what the number is off the top of my head though. 

I've always thought of the increase in flux density due to the core as a concentration of the flux (AKA the same flux was there but the core helps concentrate it toward the center).  Looking at the formulas, μr definitely is an amplification.

So, does μr add more flux to the coil or does it concentrate flux that the coil already made?  I guess what I'm asking is without the core is the same flux created by the coil already there but greatly spread out so that when the core is brought near it starts to concentrate the flux?  OR, does the core actually generate more flux, so the coil produces X and the core adds Y to that amount? 

Now, I've read that μr is like resistance in a wire.  So the flux is like current (in fact the equations are almost the same).  μ0 is the same as having a very high resistance.  So the flux generated by the current has a high resistance and therefore a smaller amount is produced.  Now adding a core will be the same as lowering the resistance, so the flux generated by the same current will be stronger.  So, I think what your saying is true, it is an amplification.  The coil produces more flux with a core (it does not concentrate it like I originally thought).  Theoretically, 1mA around a 1000 turn coil could produce 100 Teslas if the core material permitted it. 

The only problem is that the back torque is going to keep the energy levels balanced.  Find a way around back torque and you'll have a very nice energy amplifier. 

[The Observer]

Sandman, (my nickname for you, hope you like it)

Thanks so much for bringing this information (about Butch LaFonte) to the Magnetic Permeability thread.

It looks as if this guy is well on the way to tapping into the free energy offered up by the 2 unpaired electrons in ferromagnetic materials.!

It would be nice to get a hold of some of that really high permeability material.
   Damn, I'd pay $20 for a small piece, if it's going to amplify the magnetic field of a coil by over 100,000 times !
      Have to look into that whenever I get experimental apparatus together.

Be Well,

             The Observer

[Charlie_V]

Metglas will send you one free sample of any of their metal foils.  They won't do any of the special annealing with the free samples though.  The problem is that it takes them MONTHS to do this.  I called and talked to a representative and they put me down for Magnetic Alloy 2714A.  After about 3 months I gave up.  Then about a year later it came in the mail haha! 

It turned out what I was doing needed a high saturation material, not so much high permeability.  So the foil kinda went to waste.  It being a foil made it difficult to work with as well, and man was it sharp. 

I looked at those La Fonte schematics.  Its an interesting concept but it doesn't address the back torque problem, I don't think it will produce over unity.

[nul-points]

Sandman, (my nickname for you, hope you like it)

definitely an improvement over 'Lady Sherlock'  ..from a bemused forum-member who seemed to think i was a woman - with well-developed - er - deductive powers!

(in his defence, 'Sandy' is the common nickname for Sandra in many cultures - apart from Scotland where it's a common nick for Alexander, as in my case)

Thanks so much for bringing this information (about Butch LaFonte) to the Magnetic Permeability thread.
It looks as if this guy is well on the way to tapping into the free energy offered up by the 2 unpaired electrons in ferromagnetic materials.!

i ought to have looked into his work more - i've seen his name crop up from time to time - but i think he's majored on motor/generator Apps so i've tended not to follow up (usually prefer my components to remain stationary!)

It would be nice to get a hold of some of that really high permeability material.
   Damn, I'd pay $20 for a small piece, if it's going to amplify the magnetic field of a coil by over 100,000 times !
      Have to look into that whenever I get experimental apparatus together.

it's ironic, a little while back, before you started this thread, i saw another mention about the highest mag perm material being used in tape heads - and i had one of those off-the-wall moments thinking it would be funny if it turned out that tape-heads were actually OU in nature all along!

i wondered what the possibility would be of just plugging a tape-head into one of my experiments as an inductor (since they already have a coil built-in) and seeing if there were any anomalous results

(wish now i'd kept the massive heads off the old Ferrograph reel-to-reel deck i once rescued ...dayum... wish i'd kept the whole deck!)

er - seem to rambling again - meds must be wearing off... 

how feasible would it be to strip one or more heads (fabricated with suitable material) from some old reel-to-reels and use them as 'cores' in a custom inductor?

I looked at those La Fonte schematics.  Its an interesting concept but it doesn't address the back torque problem, I don't think it will produce over unity.

hmmmm - are we both thinking of his latest developments?  the most recent schematic i've just seen appears to be all about addressing the back-torque problem

if i understand it correctly, he believes he's seeing evidence that a magnet entirely enclosed within a solenoid doesn't experience the same back-torque as one which extends anywhere outside the coil


and on a subject possibly related to the above - and definitely related to what we discussed briefly earlier about stacking ferrite core around inductors - increased Q factor - increased efficiency, etc:-

you mentioned a couple of posts above:
> my interpretation of adding ferrite material around the inductor has nothing to do with efficiency.
I believe that, as I have been saying, ferromagnetic materials ADD energy to the dynamic

i would say that if you can "ADD energy to the dynamic" then it has everything to do with efficiency - since the ultimate goal of all our endeavours on this forum (hopefully!) is to develop technology where (Energy out) / (Energy In) > 1

we're certainly trying to add energy to the dividend of that equation - and of course (Energy out) / (Energy In) = Efficiency 

now, i think you were probably referring more to the 'efficiency' aspect of the conventional description of 'Q' which is a measure of the 'quality' or 'efficiency' of a coil - but what i probably didn't make clear was that this 'Q' factor of coils seems to me to be an attempt by conventional science to 'cook the books' in order to balance an otherwise anomalous (in their eyes) energy equation

since we discussed that, i re-read a paper with an excellent treatise on optimising design characteristic of ferrite-cored coils (from an amateur radio rather than 'free energy' POV, i believe)

the author was referencing results which indicated that there is a significant difference in Q (efficiency) between the case where the coil is almost the same length as the core and the case where the core extends significantly beyond the coil

i seem to remember he was saying that an optimum was about 3:1 core-to-coil length ratio (which, rather spookily, is what i see as i look over at the inductor in the test circuit next to me while i'm writing this - i've stacked a ferrite of the same dimension as my core at both ends of the inductor)


ok - that's more than enough from me

goodnight all
sandman

[The Observer]

Dr. Otto,

Seems as if you are seeing some good results with your little contraption.

I have observed the Vid on Youtube where S. Marks shows a few devices to some guys.
I am not sure what is technically meant by TPU

  I am guessing it's the toroid thing that lights up the TV, Drill etc.

If you could impart a brief explanation of a TPU here, I would appreciate it.

   Otherwise, seeing the device in the Vid I mentioned, I theorized that it could be 2 coils wrapped around a ferromagnetic donut.

    1 coil sends out a small pulse, the other coil receives the emf of the small pulse + the emf of the ferromagnetic materials magnetic field lining up for a brief second.
     Then of course, on the back end, when the magnetic field of the donut + the coil collapses, it produces another emf on both coils that could be used.

    If you set all this up with a resonant tuned circuit using a capacitor and perhaps a resister, there may be extra energy always available.

Maybe not exactly what he did, but that is my thoughts.
   Basically a donut shaped transformer with coils wrapped over each other.

As far as you saying... 'I can see you know what you are writing about, because I can see it in my experiments.'
   
  Umm, feels good and inspires me to keep this thing alive until all the questions are sufficiently answered.

We can make it to the Promised Land.

                                                       The Observer