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Isn't free communication as important as free energy?

Started by exxcomm0n, October 07, 2008, 12:10:52 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

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Creativity

Quote from: Magnethos on October 08, 2008, 02:06:37 PM
Explain me more your idea, seems to be very interesting. Detail how is possible the intercontinental communications, I don't understand what you mean.

what i said is that if u were to communicate with everyone in a direct manner,u would get a total chaos in ionosphere.Not to mention that u would have to have either very precise positioning system to send focused beams of messages what would be probably pricely to build and maintenance prohibitive solution.U could go for all-directional sending but then messages would be corrupted by other messages being send in the same time globally(interpolation of electromagnetic waves).In second case u have a global collision space of messages,it means only one person can send at a time.Read about the radio internet between Hawaii islands to get some more insight(ALOHA medium access protocol)

But if u introduce a local collision spaces with a relatively small amount of hosts communicating,the chances are smaller that all of them will send at the same time.Locality can be introduced by small power routers (for example like the one standing on my desk) visible withing max 100m range.In my neighbourhood there are 6 wireless networks visible and yet i suffer no noticeable slowdown.If all of those networks were unprotected we could use eachothers connection to enter internet.In fact anyone in these part of city would be able to use this internet for free.
In this space we occupy we can designate a boundary routers to handle all networking between neighbouring spaces and ours.If u scale this up u can cover whole city with wifi internet.In that case city is build up out of local collision spaces.

Communication between cities can be achieved by introducing a semidirectional wifi with limited range lets say 100km.

Intercontinental connections can be realised by what u proposed.Then let say 1mil of users can be charged to build a directional precise dish to connect to another dish on the other continent.All of networking would go through here.

that's the main picture how i see it.Of course radio communication is not so obvious as u have to buy a frequency band.Count rain and fog absorption as a problem for some types of wave lenghts+ radio visibility.Anyhow wifi band is paid already by manufacturers of wifi equipment,limited power senders are also not so strictly controlled by laws so clusters of small local networks with inexpensive routers is the easiest and cheapest way to go IMHO.Hope i answered ur questions.

PS:reread my previous post ,as i was editing it in the time when u wrote ur post.
Blues it through your outstanding life,leaving more than just footsteps behind (1999 B-stok by me).

By being intensively responsive to what others say,i do run a risk: I open myself up to the opinions of others.i will,at times, have a great understanding for their opinion.Sometimes,i will even change my own opinion because i realize that the other person is right.This "risk" i do not run if i am unresponsive to what others say.

Magnethos

Yes, I understand better the system. But I have still a question...
you said Communication between cities can be achieved by introducing a semidirectional wifi with limited range lets say 100km.

How you increase the wifi range? You say By introducing a semidirectional wifi. I don't understand that. Do you mean that we have to introduce a powerfull wifi antenna? or a wifi amplifier antenna? Or what?

Creativity

a router would have to have more powerfull sender and possibly some repeaters with amplifiers on the way between cities. By semidirectional i meant that a beam of radio waves is almost like a beam of laser,so covering only a small radius over the desired distance.Normal wifi antenna sends the waves all around it,by that it also looses range but wins covering of bigger area.In the city covering of the bigger area is desirable.Between cities there is no one to use internet so sender power would be wasted if a standard antenna would be used for intercity communication.By focusing a wave beam u can send it greater distance with the same power of amplifier.
Blues it through your outstanding life,leaving more than just footsteps behind (1999 B-stok by me).

By being intensively responsive to what others say,i do run a risk: I open myself up to the opinions of others.i will,at times, have a great understanding for their opinion.Sometimes,i will even change my own opinion because i realize that the other person is right.This "risk" i do not run if i am unresponsive to what others say.

exxcomm0n

@ Magnethos

It's good to see that others have had ideas for a project of this type!
File compression will be a major concern as it will significantly decrease the amount of data using the medium (radio broadcast networking of a type yet to be discovered or used).

Your compression scheme is a good one that I can see very few ways of improving it (but since I'm not a programmer I'm sure those improvements have some sort of caveat that I presently don't understand).

I was wondering if the networking device (radio) could have it's own operating system to interpret the signals coming in and re-organizing them into the original file content.
File header and footer information could be in an internal database so they could then be shortened into  identifiers in the keyfile to added in place with the data to reconstruct the original file content.

I'll leave this part up to you though. ;)

My focus is the radio side of things.
Both making a radio networking device that would be fast enough for data, and figuring out an addressing scheme and challenge/response to make sure only the intended recipient is able to decode the content they requested.

There's lots more here that I haven't addressed yet, but I think the radio part is the 1st step.

But contributions of any type are always welcome!

@ Creativity

That's why I was looking @ the Tesla concept as it's not as dependent on things like power lines and other infrastructure requirements. It would all depends on the reach of the ground wave radio signal.
present technologies are good, but what if the infrastructure is not there to support it?
When I stop learning, plant me.

I'm already of less use than a tree.

exxcomm0n

I started the above post and didn't finish it until much later and missed the last 5-6 posts until I had posted it.

@ creativity

I doubt that a new spectrum would have the traffic to totally clog it immediately, but if a new spectrum was realized (this is why I focused on "over the horizon" radio like Tesla's pro ported one, or shortwave, or ELF, except the 2 latter are either monumentally slow or error prone) it might have the frequency room to start with that congestion wouldn't be an immediate concern.

Routing would be a serious issue with growing popularity as well as an addressing scheme (although IPV6 does hold a lot of promise and headroom) but to begin with I was considering (should Tesla's radio method be found) that the radio would be a hardware networking device (router) to start with being hardware (MAC) addressed with packet inspection routing coupled with frequency identifiers for multiple streams of data re-assembled from both compression and out of sequence reception order, as well as 1st level encryption.

Infrastructure to support the ever growing number of users and create localized subnets will be implemented as popularity progresses just has is has w/ the present wired and wireless 'Net. Perhaps the inclusion of a 3rd "OR" bit could be introduced or some such nonsense

As mentioned in some of those links up above I posted, Tesla's radio did not seem to have the speed issues of Hertzian wavelengths (so who knows the frequency capability) and was said to have over the horizon capability not dependent on trans-Atlantic cable bundles or satellite relays. This was the heart of the matter I was looking at.

If for some reason those resources were not available, wouldn't it be nice if there was an alternate means for PC to PC communication?

This is why the radio is the central point of the matter. The other plus is that it also works as a power receiver and would have some beneficial aspects that way.

I want to learn about that and verify its workability and speed to see if there's any reason to go farther because without that there really is no need to worry about routing and congestion.

I have a lot of studying of my own as well as learning from the study of others interested in this radio, and then experimentation to find out if it's faster than shortwave (which is our only present alternative should something happen to the present 'Net infrastructure) before I worry about addressing schemas and routing topologies.
Then, if warranted, I see the situations you mention coming into play in a major way.

I'm sure DARPA wasn't able to even conceive of what the 'Net is now @ the time of it's conception and birth. ;)
When I stop learning, plant me.

I'm already of less use than a tree.