Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods

[broli]

Maybe it's just me but do people really understand magnetic induction to a fundamental degree. I'm struggling real hard with it. I keep ending up in loops thinking of how all the things that involves magnetic induction.

A coil that is being powered makes a magnetic field at the same time this field is then being held back by an induced and making things even complex by having a PM move by. Trying to simulate it in your head can lead to madness.

[supermuble]

BEP, you sound upset? Yes, more people need to experiment, I agree. But personally I cannot experiment as much as I would like because money is always a limiting factor. Not everyone can afford to test everything without learning about it on paper first. It is simply too expensive to test every configuration while ruining rolls of wire that cost $35 each. Though, I do think that people who speculate WITHOUT ever once experimenting should be called ZERO-POINT because there is no point in them learning anything. Electrical engineers sometimes go their entire life without ever trying anything new. Now that is a waste!

I just made a spiral core. It responds like a Bedini-Cole window motor coil. You have to spin a rotating N/S magnet across the coil windings, and you get voltage (no measurable Lenz) since the core is only as thick as the wire itself. The spinning magnet cannot possibly see any magnetic drag with this configuration. The only unique problem is the way you have to cut a cross the windings. Ideally, you would need to wrap up the spiral core inside an alternator or something so the magnets can cut "across" the wires to create more current. Running the spinning magnet paralell (lengthwise) to the wires produces nearly no voltage or current. For example, according to my experiment, if you had a spinning magnetic wheel, it would not generate much power at all unless the magnets cut across the spiral coil at a 90 degree angle. That means, you would need a HUGE machine and it would not be practical. I think that is why if you roll up a spiral coil and put it into an alternator, you would have no Lenz drag, while having a much more compact unit, and the magnets would be cutting ACROSS the wires (not paralell).

So spiral cores are out. I don't think they would work for a practical small generator unless you can make the coil on a sheet of aluminum or plastic, roll it up into a cylinder, and stuff the entire thing inside an alternator (not really practical).

TAO, Great insight! You just described a Bedini motor, using Pulsed DC. I built one using a particle board rotor with 16 small 1" magnets. When the magnets approach the coil, they see no LENZ since the coil is shut completely off. When the magnet passes over the coil it kicks on, generating an opposing magnetic field, but only enough to allow the magnet to pass by.

The LUTEC motor uses this exact same principle, though with much different timing and components. I can't figure out how you can use Lenz law to cause acceleration while there is a current load on the coil? It sounds like it all comes down to the proper timing, and pulsing. If you pulse things in the correct manner, you avoid the opposing drag created by Lenz law. I need to ponder on these ideas more, because this concept is difficult for me to visualize.

Great insight!

Broli, you are right. Thinking about inductors and magnets is a never ending process. Our books explain some of it, but as Bearden said, our current models are not complete, hence our major curiosity and confusion.

[sparks]

Here's more confusion.  Say instead of changing the core magnetic flux with a permanent magnet we get the core magnetic flux to respond to a wave propogation.
The wave travels on into the core the core mass vibrates in response to the wave and the coil puts out some amps but the wave has moved off at the speed of light and could care less about what slow motion reaction is going on back at the core.  Then the wave reflects and does it's thing again to the core.  The power is in the wave the energy is in the core atoms.  And the work is in the output coil.

[BEP]

'Upset'? Yes, it is frustrating. The most important differences of a spiral coil are the pole locations, the variation of current speed from one turn to the next, with some work you can make them resonate at unbelievable frequencies, they can be more capacitive than inductive, etc., etc.

Wrapping them inside a motor will likely be a bad move. Like said before - if you stretch them into a third dimension they start acting like common coil designs.

Avoiding Lenz is one of my best sidebars. I check back here during a break once in a while. This morning I came back and found before a good idea had been confirmed we were off theorizing the next step with bad assumptions from the first.

I should just go back to the bench and shut-up 

[BEP]

Here's more confusion.  Say instead of changing the core magnetic flux with a permanent magnet we get the core magnetic flux to respond to a wave propogation.
The wave travels on into the core the core mass vibrates in response to the wave and the coil puts out some amps but the wave has moved off at the speed of light and could care less about what slow motion reaction is going on back at the core.  Then the wave reflects and does it's thing again to the core.  The power is in the wave the energy is in the core atoms.  And the work is in the output coil.

Nice idea but it requires a step that most here won't take....

Understanding a core, coil, or magnet are not the source of the magnetic flux. Until that happens they'll continue crashing into a closed door - repeatedly.

Enough... I'm going back to my bench now