Steorn News

[wizardofmars]

What do mean by "at this late stage?"  Please provide quotes by Steorn or Sean that proves whatever you're trying to prove.

"At this late stage" means nothing has happened eighteen months after the promised public demo.

You seem to put a lot of trust in quotes and talk. Sean can and does say whatever he likes. The reality is the Orbo perpetual motion machine doesn't work. Several of the people who met with Sean at the demo seemed to think he was delusional (e.g. http://www.eskimo.com/~eresrch/Steorn/final_report.text) and he fits the profile exactly.

I am certain Steorn really believed I would see something that
resembled their claim.  They spent a lot of money setting up this demo
and some 2000 pounds sending me over and putting me up.  There are
much cheaper ways to pull a con.

If it was a hoax, the whole upstairs would not exist, nor would Sean
have taken the time to go through all the details of how he thinks it
all works.  I can not describe any of those details without breaking
the NDA, so it puts me in a fairly strange position.  The flaws in the
thought process are clear to me, but Steorn considers these details
propriatary information. 

My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam.  It is delusion.  The reason it seems surreal is
because it is surreal - we are the real part of someone elses
imagination.

According to Sean's recent talk (which is archived at http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.com/2008/12/sean-talks.html) Steorn are no longer promoting the validation jury or SPDC but now talking about licensing the tech to hundreds of engineers (aka hobbyists). It's a great approach if you just need to wring out another year.

[PaulLowrance]

What you've presented is mere speculation. No legal court system would or could ever prosecute someone based on what you've present. I don't think an eighteen month delay means the orbo doesn't work. Only time will tell. If it's a fake or whatever, then that's not going to harm me any?  I've cheered on plenty of people and companies who have failed, but at least I could say that I morally supported them. So far I don't see any evidence of scam.

BTW, that paper, from Dr. Mike, says, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam.  It is delusion."  In case you would like to know, Dr. Mike only met Sean. That's all. So Dr. Mike was speculating.

PL

[utilitarian]

What you've presented is mere speculation. No legal court system would or could ever prosecute someone based on what you've present. I don't think an eighteen month delay means the orbo doesn't work. Only time will tell. If it's a fake or whatever, then that's not going to harm me any?  I've cheered on plenty of people and companies who have failed, but at least I could say that I morally supported them. So far I don't see any evidence of scam.

BTW, that paper, from Dr. Mike, says, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam.  It is delusion."  In case you would like to know, Dr. Mike only met Sean. That's all. So Dr. Mike was speculating.

PL

No, what he presented is a set of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is no working Orbo and there never was.  Of course no one can prove beyond ALL doubt that there is no Orbo, but that is only because Steorn is so tight with information.  If you are going to bring courts of law into this, in a normal civil action, the decision is based on a preponderance of the evidence.  So far, there has been a preponderance of NOTHING from Steorn, and so the reasonable observer would conclude that it is a delusion or a scam.

Nothing about the jury
No explanation of why there has not been another demo with new bearing and low light
No videos of the device at all
Not even photos of the device
Plenty of established science contradicting the few claims that have been made

So believe all you want, but it is just wishful thinking of an eternal optimist.  We need something tangible to swing the evidence scale the other way.

[PaulLowrance]

No, what he presented is a set of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is no working Orbo and there never was.  Of course no one can prove beyond ALL doubt that there is no Orbo, but that is only because Steorn is so tight with information.  If you are going to bring courts of law into this, in a normal civil action, the decision is based on a preponderance of the evidence.  So far, there has been a preponderance of NOTHING from Steorn, and so the reasonable observer would conclude that it is a delusion or a scam.

Nothing about the jury
No explanation of why there has not been another demo with new bearing and low light
No videos of the device at all
Not even photos of the device
Plenty of established science contradicting the few claims that have been made

So believe all you want, but it is just wishful thinking of an eternal optimist.  We need something tangible to swing the evidence scale the other way.

Mike's statement, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam.  It is delusion."  was speculation.

In a court of law the prosecution needs to provide substantial evident that Steorn is a scam. There's no such available evidence. What you posted, lack of evidence, is not evidence. It's a good thing the legal system, at least here in the USA, adheres to the "Presumption of innocence," which means a person or company is innocent until proven guilty. Without that, the debunker's across the world would be burning people at the stake left and right on their misguided ill witch hunts.

PL

[utilitarian]

Mike's statement, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam.  It is delusion."  was speculation.

In a court of law the prosecution needs to provide substantial evident that Steorn is a scam. There's no such available evidence. What you posted, lack of evidence, is not evidence. It's a good thing the legal system, at least here in the USA, adheres to the "Presumption of innocence," which means a person or company is innocent until proven guilty. Without that, the debunker's across the world would be burning people at the stake left and right on their misguided ill witch hunts.

PL

You know even less about the legal system than you do about science.  Presumption of innocence only applies in the criminal courts.  In civil courts, the standard is merely a preponderance of the evidence.  And sure, there is not enough evidence to convict anyone of fraud yet, but that is because there has not been any investigation of what is behind closed doors.  Anyway, no one is really talking about crimes here - we are trying to decide what is real and what is not.

And the question is not, can we prove that Steorn is a scam?  The question is: is there a working Orbo?  There is no evidence that there is, and there is plenty of laws of physics that contradict the claims that Steorn has made, so the conclusion: no Orbo, barring some new evidence.  You want to say Steorn is legitimate, find some evidence to that effect.  Until then, you are the one who is speculating.