Newsflash: Overunity is impossible

[jadaro2600]

I would like to buttress the notion of a tuning fork in the previous examples:

If you have two of these devices, made to be as perfectly identical as modern manufacturing techniques allow, then striking one will most likely have an effect on the other within the realms of the inverse square laws proportional to distance, etc.

Some arguments to OU suggest that if you have a series of evenly spaced tuning forks a radial distance away from a central tuning fork, and you strike this tuning fork, that the sum of the external effects will be greater than the internal effect if the number of the external members exceeds the number need to ....  in other words, if the internal member is effecting an external member where F represents the effects of the internal member and F/12 represents the effects on the external member at distance Q, then having 13 members radially placed at distance Q will demonstrate principles of over unity since the sums of effects on the external members is greater than the internal effect.

Imagine, if you will, a stone-henge of tuning forks, where the internal stone is a tuning fork of equal tune the external tuning forks.  There are other factors involved, such as air density, transference to ground and the tendency to mechanically nullify, but the IDEA of it all, for exemplary purposes, is sound.

[pun intended, ]

Now apply the idea to a series of resonant coils, and you may have yourself a device - remember to think in all three dimensions as well.

[Chris31]

Consider a resonance similiar to a playground swing.

A alittle girl is able to swing herself using minimal force, its the timing that she must get right to build the momentum. Once loaded the swing loses its momentum, she will need to start all over again to build the momentum gradually.

So there is no big energy from little energy happening there. Its the gradual build up that increase the amplitude of the swing.

[The Observer]

Greetings Chris,

The Swing is an excellent example of Resonance.
That's why I brought it up 2 or 3 pages ago to illustrate to NewsFlash that energy is stored in a Resonating System.
I hope you can agree with me on that. ;o)

Now the only bridge that needs to be crossed is undertanding more energy is output.

There are 2 ways that the swing loses energy...

    1. The creak / friction of the fulcrum (where the top of the swing connects to the swing set)
         
    2. Air resistance. of the child, swing and chains.

            Now let's begin with the first push.
     
                   The child swings a foot.... there is a small creak at the fulcrum... there is a small amount of wind disturbance.

             Second Push

                     The child swings 2 feet... there is a bit larger creak at the fulcrum... there is a bit more wind disturbance.

             3rd Push

                      Hope you know where I'm going with this !

              Nth Push... where the Q of the system is reached.... that is, gravity will not let you add any more energy to the system.

                      The child swings 10 feet... The creak at the fulcrum is very loud.....There is a lot of wind disturbance.


          Now I hope you will acknowledge that the story begins with........ small push = small creak / little wind disturbance.

                                                                    and the the story ends with........ small push = loud creak / a lot of wind disturbance.

Tell me Please... Please.... Please....
                                                                  How can a small push produce a loud creak and a lot of wind disturbance?

I have silenced quite a few in these last few days with this thread.

Please reply... there is nothing wrong with saying..."Oh, I can see what you are talking about !"

Then we will be on the same team !

Yours Truly,
                     The Observer

[jadaro2600]

How can a small push produce a loud creak and a lot of wind disturbance?

...If you're pushing something off of a cliff, or table top.

I can see what you're saying; can you see what I mean though (with regard to a tuning fork expample, revising this, though, there would need to be a number of additions forks in an even number.  I may try this example - replicate it, but tuning forks cost a fortune for their purpose, perhaps i can just make some with an equal symmetry across all of them for cheaper.   all it has to do is resonate, the real question is, will it reflect back to source.)

Swings are a good example too, recall though, that swing is at it's maximum speed at the lowest point of its undulation.  When taking this into account, it may be more usefull to harness that power of the approaches at maximum swing hieght rather than at lowest - the net result would mean less netw back emf generated at height rather than at depth.

[Steven Dufresne]

Tell me Please... Please.... Please....
                                                                  How can a small push produce a loud creak and a lot of wind disturbance?

Please reply... there is nothing wrong with saying..."Oh, I can see what you are talking about !"

I hate to answer this since I'll seem like a naysayer but since I am an active experimenter, I won't worry about my rep.

First push
  The child swings 1 foot.... there is a small creak at the fulcrum... there is a small amount of wind disturbance.
  There is also energy left in this system as is clearly shown by the fact that, if left alone, the swing would
  swing again and again and again, a little less each time until it stops.
Second push
  The child swings 2 feet... there is a bit larger creak at the fulcrum... there is a bit more wind disturbance.
  The reason the child swung 2 feet instead of 1 foot is because of the leftover energy from the 1st push.
Third push
  The child swings 3 feet... there is a bit larger creak at the fulcrum... there is a bit more wind disturbance.
  The reason the child swung 3 feet instead of 2 foot is because of the leftover energy from the 1st and 2nd pushes.
Nth Push...
  The child swings 10 feet... The creak at the fulcrum is very loud.....There is a lot of wind disturbance.
The reason the Nth small push gave a 10 foot swing, the very loud creak and a lot of wind disturbance is because of the leftover energy from the previous pushes. Though it's impossible to say which leftover energy is from which previous push, it may very well be that by the Nth push none is left from the 1st push, but these are all rough numbers anyway.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org